Yes, schools should encourage parents to think twice about buying GTA fro the little ones, but I'm not sure a boycott is the answer. There is nothing wrong with violent video games as long as the user is able to identify that it is not real and that such behaviour is un-acceptable in a civilized society.

I play lots of semi-violent to violent video games, but I'd never even think twice about acting out a scene from GTA, or any of the others I've played.

The real issue is whether or not these games are being targeted at our youth. If they are, then that must stop, but so should targeting most advertising to our youth. Look at MTV.. look at all the Ads targeted at young girls to be "thi...

Yes, schools should encourage parents to think twice about buying GTA fro the little ones, but I'm not sure a boycott is the answer. There is nothing wrong with violent video games as long as the user is able to identify that it is not real and that such behaviour is un-acceptable in a civilized society.

I play lots of semi-violent to violent video games, but I'd never even think twice about acting out a scene from GTA, or any of the others I've played.

The real issue is whether or not these games are being targeted at our youth. If they are, then that must stop, but so should targeting most advertising to our youth. Look at MTV.. look at all the Ads targeted at young girls to be "thin" and "stylish"... look at all the fast food commercials targeted at youth... They are just as hrmful.. even more so in my mind as they seem so innocent.

I really think that both parents and the game makers need to step up to the plate and take responsibility. Parents need to actually care what thier kids watch/play/listen to/eat, and game makers (and corporate america as a whole) need to make sure that they are not targeting youth with harmful products.

Good Point, and that's the way many kids are. And many more still have parents who sit and talk to them about the games or movies or videos, etc and discuss the topics with them. But not all.

The stupid thing is that in order to protect "us" from those few who will take it too far and who will not distinguish reality from fantasy, we often go to censoring everyone. That sucks. But what else can we do?

Trust me, I do not for a second think that violence IS the fault of a game or music or TV, but the fault of the individual and those around them failing to see the coming danger. Some people are just a bit off their rocker, and we all suffer for it.

Others are just ignorant and like to ...

Good Point, and that's the way many kids are. And many more still have parents who sit and talk to them about the games or movies or videos, etc and discuss the topics with them. But not all.

The stupid thing is that in order to protect "us" from those few who will take it too far and who will not distinguish reality from fantasy, we often go to censoring everyone. That sucks. But what else can we do?

Trust me, I do not for a second think that violence IS the fault of a game or music or TV, but the fault of the individual and those around them failing to see the coming danger. Some people are just a bit off their rocker, and we all suffer for it.

Others are just ignorant and like to blame games, TV, Music (Poor Marilyn Manson..) because they are an easy target, and do not want to accept any responsibility at all.

Sorry Jfriedland, I don't want to be rude, but please don't speak out of ignorance. Here are some facts:

* GTA has indeed been made by Rockstar

* You CAN'T rape anyone in any GTA games. There are even no sex AT ALL in the official games.

* The only sex parts were removed from the final game by the developers before being sold, and some hackers found ways to "reenable" them by studying the source code. Anyway, they are not, in any case, linked to rape.

* It's a dating mini-game, where you organise night outs with the girl you try to seduce, going for a bike ride, to a restaurant, go dancing, etc. Sometimes, when you come back and the night have been good and the girsl is pleased, she as...

Sorry Jfriedland, I don't want to be rude, but please don't speak out of ignorance. Here are some facts:

* GTA has indeed been made by Rockstar

* You CAN'T rape anyone in any GTA games. There are even no sex AT ALL in the official games.

* The only sex parts were removed from the final game by the developers before being sold, and some hackers found ways to "reenable" them by studying the source code. Anyway, they are not, in any case, linked to rape.

* It's a dating mini-game, where you organise night outs with the girl you try to seduce, going for a bike ride, to a restaurant, go dancing, etc. Sometimes, when you come back and the night have been good and the girsl is pleased, she ask you to come home for a coffee. The official game stops here. What the hackers found at this point enables a sex cene with your girlfriend. It's no rape AT ALL.

* It's just a side-game, not linked to the "main quest" of the game. You don't gain any point at all for that seduction part, and even less for the sex part (which is NOT part of the official game).

My point is, to enable the sex scene in this game, you have to download a specific hack, found on websites where in any case, you can find countless links to real porn sites.

Thanks
Guillaume, that was actually a much more clear versions of what I was writing




A
lot of people read about "Hot Coffee" and think.. oh! those evil game
developers! Granted, Rockstar could have
just removed the code and none of this silliness would have happened.



Another
think people seem to misunderstand is your point about the fact that they have
to HACK THE GAME. Especially if they try
and do it on a PS2, there is a lot of work involved to enable the sex scene on
a PS2.



On
the PC, granted, it is just a patch, but the user has to willingly download and
apply the hack, knowing that it enables the scene. So who's fault is it there? Not really the developer, regardless ...

Thanks
Guillaume, that was actually a much more clear versions of what I was writing




A
lot of people read about "Hot Coffee" and think.. oh! those evil game
developers! Granted, Rockstar could have
just removed the code and none of this silliness would have happened.



Another
think people seem to misunderstand is your point about the fact that they have
to HACK THE GAME. Especially if they try
and do it on a PS2, there is a lot of work involved to enable the sex scene on
a PS2.



On
the PC, granted, it is just a patch, but the user has to willingly download and
apply the hack, knowing that it enables the scene. So who's fault is it there? Not really the developer, regardless of
whether or not the code was left in. The
EULA forbids hacking the game in such a way, so these people are breaking the
law hehe

Guillame,

I appreciate the clarifications. As one with no interest in videogames, especially violent ones, I will admit that I have never played, nor even seen, one of these games in action. I have, however, read several articles and legal briefs pertaining to the manufacture of GTA, so I don't feel that my comments are totally out of ignorance.

First, you were right to correct me above, as I meant to say "(GTA not Bully").

Secondly, I was not aware that hacking was required in order to be able to rape electronically. Even so, I still have a problem with a game that is conducive to this (although it does reduce my ire toward to the manufacturers).

If, as you say, the main que...

Guillame,

I appreciate the clarifications. As one with no interest in videogames, especially violent ones, I will admit that I have never played, nor even seen, one of these games in action. I have, however, read several articles and legal briefs pertaining to the manufacture of GTA, so I don't feel that my comments are totally out of ignorance.

First, you were right to correct me above, as I meant to say "(GTA not Bully").

Secondly, I was not aware that hacking was required in order to be able to rape electronically. Even so, I still have a problem with a game that is conducive to this (although it does reduce my ire toward to the manufacturers).

If, as you say, the main quest of the game is not rape (or murder?), what exactly IS the point of the game? (seriously).

If, as you say, the main quest of the game is not rape (or murder?), what exactly IS the point of the game? (seriously).

Well, it's a bit complicated to explain. GTA is one of this new breed of games where there is no real simple point. It's like a parallel universe where you can do a lot of things.

Basically (you won't like it) you begin the game as a little thug, and you need to raise youself as a position of a big mafioso who run the city. Using extortion, theft, murder, violence. Fighting cops and rival mobs. Simply said, that's about it

But the interest of the game is not really in the ultimate point, it's in the means you have. You're in an incredibly big world, wi...

If, as you say, the main quest of the game is not rape (or murder?), what exactly IS the point of the game? (seriously).

Well, it's a bit complicated to explain. GTA is one of this new breed of games where there is no real simple point. It's like a parallel universe where you can do a lot of things.

Basically (you won't like it) you begin the game as a little thug, and you need to raise youself as a position of a big mafioso who run the city. Using extortion, theft, murder, violence. Fighting cops and rival mobs. Simply said, that's about it

But the interest of the game is not really in the ultimate point, it's in the means you have. You're in an incredibly big world, with lots of thing you can interact with. Cars, bikes, helicopters, weapons. The inrest of the game is that you're not forced to follow a set path, always the same, but you have a total freedom on how to accomplish a given mission.

Really, that looks like it's ver dumb, but you have to try it to really feel how it's like. If you like videogames, this is one of the ultimate ones

Hrm, I kind of agree with both of you (jfriedland & Guillaume).

On jfriedlan's side, I agree that there ARE people out there who just want to play violent games and "get off" on them. These are the people this game is dangerous to. They don't seem to have the ability to distinguish reality from fantasy, and if they do, they don't care. These are the people who will imitate a game (Violent like GTA, or a simple racing game like Need for Speed) in the real world.

On Guillaume's side, i have to agree that the VAST majority of game players are responsible, and do not imitate the game in the real world, they know that some actions performed in the game (where you are role playing a character...

Hrm, I kind of agree with both of you (jfriedland & Guillaume).

On jfriedlan's side, I agree that there ARE people out there who just want to play violent games and "get off" on them. These are the people this game is dangerous to. They don't seem to have the ability to distinguish reality from fantasy, and if they do, they don't care. These are the people who will imitate a game (Violent like GTA, or a simple racing game like Need for Speed) in the real world.

On Guillaume's side, i have to agree that the VAST majority of game players are responsible, and do not imitate the game in the real world, they know that some actions performed in the game (where you are role playing a character) are definitely NOT acceptable outside of the game.

So what is the answer? Make the game illegal or so hard to get for the VAST majority, because the few that can't handle the game ruin it? If that is the case, why not get rid of alcohol? There or thousands of times more liquor related attacks, murders, rapes, car accidents, etc every year than video games. How about TV? Kids see lots of stuff they imitate on TV every day, look at how many 12 year old girls imitate Christina Aguilera :| OMG! My daughter (when/if I have one) might just have to grow up in a convent the way things are going

My original issue with this game still stands. I have no doubt it will be a fun game (for some), but it SEEMS to be targeted at youth, who are more susceptible (generally) to violent imagery, especially imagery that they can so easily identify with.

I just wish Rockstar had made a game that does NOT take place in a private school where to object of the game seems to be to bully other kids, especially since bullying is a HUGE problem in schools today. We DON'T need to make that cool.

TheCatWhisperer said:

On jfriedlan's side, I agree that there ARE people out there who just want to play violent games and "get off" on them. These are the people this game is dangerous to. They don't seem to have the ability to distinguish reality from fantasy, and if they do, they don't care. These are the people who will imitate a game (Violent like GTA, or a simple racing game like Need for Speed) in the real world.

Do you really know some guys like that ? I don't. Except in republican propaganda to censor videogames. If some wacko kills someone, everyone blame the videogame he was playing before. Do they really think he wouldn't have done it if he hadn't play the game ? Come ...

TheCatWhisperer said:

On jfriedlan's side, I agree that there ARE people out there who just want to play violent games and "get off" on them. These are the people this game is dangerous to. They don't seem to have the ability to distinguish reality from fantasy, and if they do, they don't care. These are the people who will imitate a game (Violent like GTA, or a simple racing game like Need for Speed) in the real world.

Do you really know some guys like that ? I don't. Except in republican propaganda to censor videogames. If some wacko kills someone, everyone blame the videogame he was playing before. Do they really think he wouldn't have done it if he hadn't play the game ? Come on, let's be serious. We'd better ask ourselves how someone like him has access to real guns. They are dangerous. Not virtual ones.

Jfriedland said:

Okay, I give up. I will continue to aspire to be the good guy. The rest of you can do as you please.

This is not incompatible JF. We're talking about games here. In my personal life, of course I want to be the "good guy" and bring happiness around me, to the people I love, etc. We're not questioning that. But in gams, it's a lot of fun to play the "dark side". It's a kind of catharsis if you want. Really watch kids playing. They invent all sort of stories an phantasies, that doesn't mean they want to actually realize them in real life.

That's a bit like sexual phantasies, actually. You can dream of sex or love stories with different partners, and still really love and be faithful to your wife/husband. Everyone does that.

Do you really know some guys like that ? I don't. Except in republican propaganda to censor videogames. If some wacko kills someone, everyone blame the videogame he was playing before. Do they really think he wouldn't have done it if he hadn't play the game ? Come on, let's be serious. We'd better ask ourselves how someone like him has access to real guns. They are dangerous. Not virtual ones.

Actually, yes I do, not to the extream that they would go on a killing spree, but they damn well do try and imitate the wrestling games (and wrestling on TV) and they DO race thier cars down the highway.. stupid, but they do it. I even herd of a guy who actually tried to imitate Projec...

Do you really know some guys like that ? I don't. Except in republican propaganda to censor videogames. If some wacko kills someone, everyone blame the videogame he was playing before. Do they really think he wouldn't have done it if he hadn't play the game ? Come on, let's be serious. We'd better ask ourselves how someone like him has access to real guns. They are dangerous. Not virtual ones.

Actually, yes I do, not to the extream that they would go on a killing spree, but they damn well do try and imitate the wrestling games (and wrestling on TV) and they DO race thier cars down the highway.. stupid, but they do it. I even herd of a guy who actually tried to imitate Project Gotham Racing by doinf slides/drifts in his camero... didn't go well for the car, unfortunatly he came out without a scratch.

Granted, these people are RARE, and thank goodness It's these weirdos and rare idiots that those propoganda bits are centered on. This one guy does something stupid, and he go tthe idea from a game, so games are evil :|

I don't belive it, but those who know little to nothing about video games do. Its amazing what people will believe, as long as it is a "trusted" source saying... WMDs anyone?

PS: sorry for bad spelling, etc.. i just re-formated my machine.. don't yet have an editor installed (And no, I can't spellcheck my own writing )