Richard Dawkins: Why There Almost Certainly Is No God

This has nothing to do with proof of the Creator. But has a lot to do with how some 'religious' people are acting. Can anyone show me what this has got to do with proving God exists or not?

10-25-2006 12:23 PM

Denney

This is really stupid. It is pretty obvious in the Bible that the rapture happens first, and then 7 years later, the 'Armageddon'. So, it is absolutely illogical that Christians could be waiting for a World War. When the World War occurs, the true Christians (who are supposedly waiting for the World War) will have already been raptured.

10-25-2006 2:07 PM

But are not the christian right thinking in that way?

10-25-2006 3:58 PM

BradFarr

Nonsense.

10-25-2006 4:20 PM

What is nonsense?

10-25-2006 4:35 PM

joshguy1425

"But are not the christian right thinking in that way?"

Emphatically no.

While I'm not religious, I had the interesting experience of growing up under devout christian parents, and they are very anti-war, etc. The bible is *very* clear that the rapture happens first, and anyone who is "waiting for a war" or believes that the majority of christians believe that are definitely on the fringes.

10-25-2006 7:17 PM

So what then are the christian right doing in politics. I thought they were keen to support israel so that the war can start early etc. I know it may not coincide with the Bible teachings but this i believe is what they themselves say. They have a very strange interpretation of Christianity.

11-9-2006 5:23 PM

lounge_lizard

Exactly....the "Christian" Conservatives are far, far away from what a Christian SHOULD be....peaceful, and compassionate.

11-9-2006 7:22 PM

Ali,
The Christian teachings that should be stressed are the beautitudes and the two greatest commandments. But it's much more fun to envision the "rapture" and end times.

11-10-2006 4:08 AM

What exactly is the rapture?

11-10-2006 8:44 AM

It could be called "The Hoax" instead of the Rapture, but alot of people believe it.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

11-10-2006 9:38 AM

So all people must 'worship' christ before the rapture happens?

Does that mean that all non christians must die? Hence there must be great war to happen? Hence the christians must support war now????

Am confused

11-10-2006 9:47 AM

TheCatWhisperer

It is pretty obvious in the Bible that the rapture happens first, and then 7 years later, the 'Armageddon'.

Yes, and the world/universe was created in 7 days (well six, plus a day of rest) :|

If you believe that, well, power to you, but not even the Pope believes THAT (in the literal sense).

11-10-2006 10:10 AM

Ali,
I clipped something called the Rapture Index a long time ago:
http://www.raptureready.com/rap2.html
These people are really into it big time. Don't try to understand it; it will only confuse you further needlessly.

11-10-2006 10:14 AM

TheCatWhisperer

No kidding.. I especially like the bit about it being "envisioned" by a 15 year old Scottish girl in the late 1800s... :|

I mean, the major churches think it's nuts... (Catholics, etc..)

Yet these nut-job evangelicals know better? (Sorry if that offends any followers of said nut-jobs.. is just my point of view, I don't expect everyone (or even a majority) to agree with it)

11-10-2006 2:15 PM

Thanks guys. But CatWhisperer, i am not worried whether all these things you mention are possible or not. For me , since the Creator is Unlimited then that means He CAN do everything. Its not a problem. The problem is where though? It is whether the communication that He sent really does say all this stuff that has been mentioned eg rapture etc. ie I ask what has actaully been communicated to us? And how much of it is today distorted or missing etc? Do you see?

thanks
ali

11-10-2006 2:28 PM

TheCatWhisperer

Oh, I see Ali, and if I were a believer, that's why I would be so frustrated.. how to determine actual messages from Him, from garbage spouted by people who are false prophets.

I don't know how believer's don't pull their hair out in frustration... I think I would go nuts

11-10-2006 2:38 PM

I agree, but in Islam the issue is easies. One book 1,400 years old, still preserved in its original language, no multiple versions. Just one.

Plus it challenges the whole of mankind to come up with one chapter in its own unique style. The style is the way it has been preserved from change.

It also comes after christiantiy and judaism so it supersedes them. So for a muslim its easier to believe it is the true communication.

Ofcousre on top of that you have the scientific miracles eg relating to various things eg the sun will come to a stop on its current trajectory, big bang reference and such like.

11-10-2006 3:03 PM

grubem

As a Christian, I do not think Dawkins is trying to prove that God does not exist more than he is trying to prove that Christian's, as he perceives them, are wrong. The trying to prove God does not exist thing just pisses Christians off, and he knows that. However, what if he recognized the difference between Jesus and Christians? What if he forgot about everything he saw (politics, war, gays) and just studied Jesus. Honestly, if you are so busy critiquing a segment of His followers, evangelical right-wing American Christianity (remember many other nations & continents have been transformed by the Gospel e.g. Africa, China, Korea), you may miss Jesus entirely.

11-10-2006 3:53 PM

Hi grubem. What can you tell us about Jesus (peace be upon him)?

11-10-2006 4:42 PM

Ali,
I'd put Marcus Borg right up there on top of the list with theologians who study the historical Jesus. I've read every book he has ever written. This one is excellent:
http://www.amazon.com/Meeting-Jesus-Again-First-Time/dp/0060609176/sr=8-2/qid=1163194275/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-1425594-0971830?ie=UTF8&s=books

11-10-2006 5:45 PM

Yes but i am just after a few paragraphs at the moment please.

11-10-2006 9:24 PM

grubem

Ali_Muslim- I'll try to give you the best few paragraphs I can (understanding this is a big subject). Jesus is the center of Christian theology. Christian's of all denominations debate on the rapture(or eschatology-the study of the end times), creation, politics, etc., but the one thing we agree on is the centrality of Christ in our lives. He was the activist by having a conversation with a Samaritan prostitute in the Gospel of John chapter 4 (Samaritans were the racial outcasts of the day). He was the friend of sinners by saying "I came not for the righteous, but sinners, for they need a doctor." And He was God incarnating himself as a man and dying on a cross as the sacrifice for sin ...

11-11-2006 6:10 AM

Thankyou for that grubem. So how can one understand the evangelicals? Are they completely ignorant of christiantiy or do they just pick the bits that suit them or what?

When did they emerge in history and why do they behave the way they do?

Many thanks

regards, ali

11-11-2006 8:03 AM

First off I want to set straight a fallacy that is being put out as fact. The founding fathers, for the most part were not deist, they were Christians. They believed in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and Him as God!
The second fallacy is that there is a separation of Church and state listed in our constitution. I dare you to find it! You will not!
Now the subject of the resurrection, the first resurrection was that of Jesus Christ. He gave His life for mine and yours on the cross and after being dead three days arose again. He will raise all those who believe in Him one day. (Revelation 4)
I will address war in the next post.

11-11-2006 8:11 AM

The fact that Christianity is a religion of peace does not mean that it is a religion of passivism! We are taught to turn the other cheek; this is referring to insults, not life and death situations. We are to take insults and persecution for our faith in order to reach others for Christ. We are to live peacefully with our neighbors as long as we can in order to reach them by example. The Bible also has two distinct outlooks on killing. One is killing someone who is not threatening life, this is simply murder. The other is called justice. The Bible says that the man who sheds men’s blood by mans hands his blood will be shed! We have the right and will use the right to protect our familie...

11-11-2006 8:16 AM

By the way! Peace is not the absence of war it is the result of it!

11-11-2006 10:56 AM

So is the US goverment and the US foregin policy acting in a Christian way?

11-11-2006 4:48 PM

In some ways, it is a Christian way to protect those who cannot protect themselves. I don’t agree totally all the time with our foreign policy but terrorism must be stopped! We as the only remaining super power are obligated to do it. I hear people talk about the death in Iraq, if we don’t snuff out terrorism and fight it on their home turf, we will fight it here! The other thing people yell is what about the innocent people that are killed in the war! My response is what about the innocent that are being killed daily by coward terrorists who must do their work in secret because they are afraid to stand and fight! It is one thing to sneak around and plant a bomb on a bus or in a market wher...

11-11-2006 4:51 PM

Oops, that was a bad slip of the fingers Marine Corp!
always proof read!

11-11-2006 5:04 PM

For me it is the US that is the Real Terrorist. I beleive they are the ones that did the 911. In order to create the war on terrror so that they can control better public opinion and do whatever they want. Here is a video produced by americans that shows a lot of evidence to support the case that it was the US goverment that helped plan or facilitate 911.

website : http://www.loosechange911.com

video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7866929448192753501&q=loose+change+recut

Just imagine, your own government killing you for its own evil interets.

Regarding what it is doing in Iraq and the middleast or afghanistan , its all about oil. Not about freedom or love for iraqis. You are very welcome to debate this further.

11-11-2006 9:45 PM

You are welcome to believe what you want! The fact of the matter is to muslems I am an infadel they would just as soon see dead so they can rule the US and turn us into a hell hole like they live in in Iraq and Afganistan.

It is not about oil, we have plenty and when it gets to expensive we will drill in Alaska.
Terrorism must be stopped, and the Us aint the Terrorist!

11-11-2006 10:31 PM

I'm watching the video. I have an open mind!

We will talk more later.

11-12-2006 5:31 AM

Muslims do not kill infidels. Infidels have been living in Muslim land and very peacefully for ages. There are christian arabs and jewish arabs even now still living there for ages. The Jews were persecuted in Europe and came to Muslims for protection, not for head cutting.

US has oil, you are right, but it wants to CONTROL the world's oil so it can keep its domination of the world. Its survival of the fittest that is in place. You can also look at Noam Chomsky's books for how the US is the worlds prime Terrroirist. He is an american professor living in america.

Take care and best regards
ali

11-12-2006 7:13 AM

I don’t know how we went from an article on proving there is no God to talking about policies of the US and 911. I admit that as soon as the first tower fell I said that there had to be explosives in that building for that to happen! The Pentagon has me confused as well. My problem is that there would be so many people who would have to keep this quit that it is just illogical to believe they have. Even people fearing for their lives would have trouble keeping something this massive hidden.

Now I’ sorry if I offended you about Muslims’, it is apparent that I am ignorant about what you believe! I have studied some on Islam and I’m struggling with the peace aspect.

My anger comes from so m...

11-12-2006 9:43 AM

Kf4bzy, dont worry no offence taken.

This is a good site to learn about Islam. Because it is run by an american christian preacher that converted to Islam. So he can address issues that american christians are close to.

http://islamtomorrow.com/

God Bless

PS: There is also the fahernhiet 911 film that shows very clearly the hypocracy of the US regime.

Regarding no one having talked yet, it may come out one day, and I am sure they would have paid everyone involved a lot of money (maybe the stolen Gold even) to make sure they dont talk. Plus they allways have the media machine to make anyone who talks sound like a traitor to america and a non patriot etc. Its easy for them. They are pra...

11-12-2006 10:54 AM

grubem

Ali- I am responding to your question about evangelicals mentioned a few comments above. I am going to stay out of the whole war on terror thing if you don't mind. Technically, evangelicals have been around since Jesus gave what Christians call the 'Great Commission' in Matthew 28. Basically, to make disciples in all nations is what the great commission says. The word evangelical is taken from the Greek word 'evangelion' which means 'proclaimer of Good News' which is also where the word 'Gospel' comes from which is what the 'good news' is. However, Christianity has divided in modern times and many are still evangelicals, but some have subscribed to a more social religion, which basical...

11-12-2006 11:11 AM