I have used this option, and abused it in the past. I recanted, reinstated the banished, and have now only excommunicated the gratuitously nasty, perverted and aggressive - the number can still be counted on one hand. I appreciate this function and don't understand why TRN is so offended by it. I think it's the fairest way for Clipmark to have handled the situation. It may be hard for some people to grasp, that others don't want to fight and argue to the death over every point. It is also true that someone will use it to smooth their ideological path by banishing opposing voices. But then, the way around that is to clip counter arguments.

I suppose one could simply ignore the comments...

I have used this option, and abused it in the past. I recanted, reinstated the banished, and have now only excommunicated the gratuitously nasty, perverted and aggressive - the number can still be counted on one hand. I appreciate this function and don't understand why TRN is so offended by it. I think it's the fairest way for Clipmark to have handled the situation. It may be hard for some people to grasp, that others don't want to fight and argue to the death over every point. It is also true that someone will use it to smooth their ideological path by banishing opposing voices. But then, the way around that is to clip counter arguments.

I suppose one could simply ignore the comments, but I had a clipper who, upon being ignored, followed me onto another entirely unrelated clip to hammer home his point. This was tantamount to harassment and bullying and showed an unwillingness on his part to back off from further confrontation. This is when, I think, censorship is essential.

Like Skwirl, I too cut out a couple of pervs who hid porn pics among normal ones. It always came as a frightful shock to be viewing landscapes one second and pornscapes the very next.

Someone has banished me (I think because I am a Christian) but that doesn't phase me in the least. There are plenty of clippers in the wide-open clippy-sea. "Win some, lose some" - "Can't please all of the people all or the time" etc. etc.

(Yes, you do know you've been 'ignored' because if you try to comment you are told you cannot).

This option is intended for use in cases where you recognize a pattern of malicious behavior that makes it impossible for you to enjoy your Clipmarks experience. It is not intended to prevent opposing views or as a way to personally punish someone you don't agree with.

I'll spell this out to better illustrate the point.

When a clip is 'posted' comments are encouraged and even welcomed, until the clipper decides that the comments are not in line with their personal thoughts or viewpoints. Blocking spammers or those abusing the Clipmarks T.O.S. (terms of service) is one thing, but to comment rudely, and then block the other clipper from commenting is another. It is also...

This option is intended for use in cases where you recognize a pattern of malicious behavior that makes it impossible for you to enjoy your Clipmarks experience. It is not intended to prevent opposing views or as a way to personally punish someone you don't agree with.

I'll spell this out to better illustrate the point.

When a clip is 'posted' comments are encouraged and even welcomed, until the clipper decides that the comments are not in line with their personal thoughts or viewpoints. Blocking spammers or those abusing the Clipmarks T.O.S. (terms of service) is one thing, but to comment rudely, and then block the other clipper from commenting is another. It is also a way to *control* what comments are approved and what are not. So, if you clip something on Global warming and people with opposing viewpoints post comments you don't like, you can block them and not because they need to be...but because they don't fit into *your* way of thinking. THAT is censorship. And THAT is what some people here do. You know who you are, and so do we.

Funny how I have had scrapes and bumps with some clippers on here, but never felt I had to block ANY of them, probably because I'm the bigger man. But the rest of you should be aware of this 'tool' in Clipmarks. People complain about our government being controlling and abusive and then that power is instilled in Clipmarks.

To answer the question about people knowing if they are blocked, the answer is yes and no. No, someone does not know if you have decided not to view their clips or comments. Yes they can see if you have blocked them from commenting on your clips.

As for Clipmarks censoring, the only things we censor are porn and spammers. There is also the rare exception that we get a new user that is simply rude and derogatory to other users and does not contribute anything but those sort of comments ("The Realer Napster" for example). As all of you know, we have had some insanely heated debates here and we never censored any of the comments unless it was for the reasons I just stated. As for giving c...

To answer the question about people knowing if they are blocked, the answer is yes and no. No, someone does not know if you have decided not to view their clips or comments. Yes they can see if you have blocked them from commenting on your clips.

As for Clipmarks censoring, the only things we censor are porn and spammers. There is also the rare exception that we get a new user that is simply rude and derogatory to other users and does not contribute anything but those sort of comments ("The Realer Napster" for example). As all of you know, we have had some insanely heated debates here and we never censored any of the comments unless it was for the reasons I just stated. As for giving clippers the ability to censor their own clips, we feel that if they abuse the power then people will eventually find someone else to follow that doesn't abuse the power. As our messaging states, we don't want people to abuse the power but of course some will. A clippers clips are just that, their clips. Just as in real life, there are people who listen to all view points whether they agree or not and those who refuse to listen to anything that contradicts their beliefs.

As always, we are open to all ideas anyone has.

REAL,

The only sneering, jeering, antagonistic crap I have run into in the short time I have been using Clipmarks has come from...you.

While I did not choose to block you, I did follow your comments on other clips.

You have given a fine example...

"You want lice with dat? How bouta side ordah cardboard?...

...your comment from http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/5D47E256-2076-4756-A8E6-CCO444AE2DDO/

Classy...really.

Who's the smacktard who said that terrorists weren't going to come to U.S. shores? Think again.

[url=http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/71DBE307-4E2A-49...

REAL,

The only sneering, jeering, antagonistic crap I have run into in the short time I have been using Clipmarks has come from...you.

While I did not choose to block you, I did follow your comments on other clips.

You have given a fine example...

"You want lice with dat? How bouta side ordah cardboard?...

...your comment from http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/5D47E256-2076-4756-A8E6-CCO444AE2DDO/

Classy...really.

Who's the smacktard who said that terrorists weren't going to come to U.S. shores? Think again.

http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/71DBE307-4E2A-49B9-A632-CBFC353D878E

Smacktard? Okay...whatever.

In just a tiny sample of your eloquent comments, you have epitomized exactly how I teach my daughter not to behave.

Clearly, you love controversy. Yet, controversy does not necessarily mean intelligent , pertinent, or insightful, as evidenced by your rays of meaning and hope.

I suspect you were blocked for your bad manners and antagonistic tone, and that just chapped your ass.

...I won't block you or anyone else...what is not pertinent is often entertainment.

what a stupid title to give this clip. censorship? are you kidding me. it's easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize. we're doing our best to observe, listen, react, learn, make decisions and develop technologies in real-time in response to the growth of this community. Our goal is to maintain a civil environment that allows the free flow of ideas without people being offended.

i am highly confident (and the stats prove) that this system does not result in much blocking/hiding of users. but i do feel that it enables people to prevent those users who they find highly obnixious or irritating from ruining their experience. i also believe that the ablity to do this provides people com...

what a stupid title to give this clip. censorship? are you kidding me. it's easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize. we're doing our best to observe, listen, react, learn, make decisions and develop technologies in real-time in response to the growth of this community. Our goal is to maintain a civil environment that allows the free flow of ideas without people being offended.

i am highly confident (and the stats prove) that this system does not result in much blocking/hiding of users. but i do feel that it enables people to prevent those users who they find highly obnixious or irritating from ruining their experience. i also believe that the ablity to do this provides people comfort, even if they don't actually use it.

i challenge you to find a system on the web that is bigger, more open and more cviil than clipmarks. thus far, it's something i'm very proud of. if you don't like it, you are free to spend you time elsewhere.

the suggestion of empowering moderators to make the decisions is not wise in my opinion. for one, we can not and do not want to spend all our time policing the site. second, to do that would be to put too much power in a select handful of people. we would rather let individuals decide for themselves what they are comfortable with. i don't really see it being any different than blogging services that provide comment moderation priviliges for bloggers.

willhelm says

"Also, since the last go around on this issue I have tried to get blocked by as many clippers as possible."

First of all, the stupidity of that is self-evident. Second of all, i personally don't appreciate that. Third, the fact that despite your efforts, you have observed that few have actually done so (our records indicate that only 2 users in the past 2 months have prevented you from commenting on their clips) should speak volumes and should point out how inaccurate your paranoid assertions about an agenda really are.

cpltaiji, you

thanks skwirlinator. i know i'm sometimes right and often times wrong, but in this day and age when so many in the media, business and politics are full of shit, i at least try to be real.

cpltaiji, sorry - i had tried responding to you but i guess i didn't notice that my comment had passed the limit (note to self, make sure that notification is obvious enough). Here's how it works. You have 3 options that you can choose to apply to any user.

1. hide that user's clips. choosing this option doesn't affect anyone else, but it allows you to visit the site and not see clips from users you prefer to ignore.

2. hide a user's comments. pretty much the same as the first option, ...

thanks skwirlinator. i know i'm sometimes right and often times wrong, but in this day and age when so many in the media, business and politics are full of shit, i at least try to be real.

cpltaiji, sorry - i had tried responding to you but i guess i didn't notice that my comment had passed the limit (note to self, make sure that notification is obvious enough). Here's how it works. You have 3 options that you can choose to apply to any user.

1. hide that user's clips. choosing this option doesn't affect anyone else, but it allows you to visit the site and not see clips from users you prefer to ignore.

2. hide a user's comments. pretty much the same as the first option, except it pertains to comments, not clips.

3. prevent a user from commenting on your clips. we created this option because a few users were feeling a great deal of duress as a result of a select few people who they felt were relentlessly commenting on their clips in a very antagonistic fashion. rather than playing cop ourselves, we figured it would be best to let users decide for themselves if other users are proving to be too much to handle. we believe that users who abuse this privilige (as far as we know, none do) will not get much attention at all on the site.

i'm very happy to say that none of these features have been used very much.

I have been using Clipmarks for quite a while and consider it well run by both the Clipmarks staff and the Clipmarks community.

I do not see this as a censorship tool, but rather a moderation tool that has been given to everyone in the community. If only the Clipmarks staff had use of this tool, then that would be censorship.

I use Clipmarks mainly because it is much better done then something like Digg or others out there. Since the early days there has always been heated debates that were handled via war of words, but usually resolved in the end with the agreement that those folks would forever disagree on that topic.

This tool would have been handy way back, as some probably rem...

I have been using Clipmarks for quite a while and consider it well run by both the Clipmarks staff and the Clipmarks community.

I do not see this as a censorship tool, but rather a moderation tool that has been given to everyone in the community. If only the Clipmarks staff had use of this tool, then that would be censorship.

I use Clipmarks mainly because it is much better done then something like Digg or others out there. Since the early days there has always been heated debates that were handled via war of words, but usually resolved in the end with the agreement that those folks would forever disagree on that topic.

This tool would have been handy way back, as some probably remember a few "out of the ordinary" people that were on in the early days.

I also think skwirl's comment was on point. People hang out here because the site attracts those interested in sharing knowledge, intellectually debating topics or articles, and in general building global friendships. Clipmarks is pretty diverse and I only hope it grows to be more diverse, create more debate and bring other parts of the world into the ClipVerse.

i'd also like to point out that we explicitly state the reason for using the 'block comments' feature (and the reasons not to) in the dialog box where this capability is offered. it states...


This option is intended for use in cases where you recognize a pattern of malicious behavior that makes it impossible for you to enjoy your Clipmarks experience. It is not intended to prevent opposing views or as a way to personally punish someone you don't agree with.To those who suggest that we encourage censorship or have an agenda, you're really not worth the time it took me to write this. i only took the time because i want anyone else who is reading this clip and comment thread to know...

i'd also like to point out that we explicitly state the reason for using the 'block comments' feature (and the reasons not to) in the dialog box where this capability is offered. it states...


This option is intended for use in cases where you recognize a pattern of malicious behavior that makes it impossible for you to enjoy your Clipmarks experience. It is not intended to prevent opposing views or as a way to personally punish someone you don't agree with.To those who suggest that we encourage censorship or have an agenda, you're really not worth the time it took me to write this. i only took the time because i want anyone else who is reading this clip and comment thread to know our position

It is not intended to prevent opposing views or as a way to personally punish someone you don't agree with.

While the 'intentions' stated may be a great disclaimer, in reality that's NOT what happened here. What happened was a user threw down some last insulting remarks and then blocked me knowing full well I could not reply. It's all there in black and white for everyone to see, and against clipmarks so-called policy.

Eric- as for the title it is correct and on the mark. I did not state that Clipmarks supports censorship, but encourages it by way of this option. As N2 Sooners and myself both pointed out, it should not be a power in the hands of everyone as that is just asking for abuse. If people have to submit to an admin or moderator , then they would have to be held accountable. While this site has not had alot of incidents yet, there are not millions of users here either. Any flaw no matter how small will be magnified as time goes on. Sorry if I 'wasted' everyone's time on this thread. Obviously it needed to be discussed as several have viewed and commented already.

theRealNapster said:

Any flaw no matter how small will be magnified as time goes on

This is very true!

What gets me is how badly you are offended by someone's opinion on their own clip? I know you are bigger than that. You often have good points and I have many times pondered on your opinions. However, like mine they are opinions.
A little advise to you would be for you to not worry so much about someone that decides to silence you on their own clip. Let it go.
Don't TRY to get banned, that is childish and dishonorable. If you really want your opinion on a subject you feel passionate about you should clip it yourself and provide comments to drive your point home. You only give ...

theRealNapster said:

Any flaw no matter how small will be magnified as time goes on

This is very true!

What gets me is how badly you are offended by someone's opinion on their own clip? I know you are bigger than that. You often have good points and I have many times pondered on your opinions. However, like mine they are opinions.
A little advise to you would be for you to not worry so much about someone that decides to silence you on their own clip. Let it go.
Don't TRY to get banned, that is childish and dishonorable. If you really want your opinion on a subject you feel passionate about you should clip it yourself and provide comments to drive your point home. You only give power where you allow it. If someone can push your buttons so easily its time to reflect on your self-esteem.
On clips I don't want feedback on I set them to private.
I don't agree with all comments made on my clips but I allow them because I want to know what people think of them. If i was being abused I would retaliate accordingly. After a period of time I would just let it go. I like this feature just the way it is so please don't change it.

EG, I love the paranoid assertion...assertion. It is entirely obvious that sort of system can only have ONE objective. For example, just project the micro example of Clipmarks and use the moral imperative to apply it to society as a whole.

Also, I was the one that pointed out that very few use this feature (at least as far as I could tell) and that it is a credit to most. You want to say that you do not appreciate the fact that I have attempted to ruffle feathers to purposely be blocked, however this is YOUR system. It lends itself for that objective. However, I will say that I am surprised by those that are really clueless about anything and yet still have the class to endure the clarit...

EG, I love the paranoid assertion...assertion. It is entirely obvious that sort of system can only have ONE objective. For example, just project the micro example of Clipmarks and use the moral imperative to apply it to society as a whole.

Also, I was the one that pointed out that very few use this feature (at least as far as I could tell) and that it is a credit to most. You want to say that you do not appreciate the fact that I have attempted to ruffle feathers to purposely be blocked, however this is YOUR system. It lends itself for that objective. However, I will say that I am surprised by those that are really clueless about anything and yet still have the class to endure the clarity and hard facts of those that disagree with them.
Let us face it, this is a Paris Hilton world with a mentality to match. Clipmarks for the most part matches that world and by creating a system of user-censorship it maintains the lowest common denomonator of rationale and opinion. Yet, like I said, I have no problem with that.

I guess I have to jump in...Well I don't HAVE to, but what the heck...

If you fill your post with insults and hate, I am going to block you. Mind you I have been known to tweak people's noses from time to time, but then again thats how I deal with people I consider trolls. I have had long and heated debates with people here, I like to wrassle after all (in a manly way of course), but I rarely block them unless I see a pattern of abuse. Perhaps I am guilty of abusing the system myself, but then again turn about is fair play. I am not going to loose sleep over it and many times I will find that while in one area I and some other clipper can be fierce opponents, in another we could still have ...

I guess I have to jump in...Well I don't HAVE to, but what the heck...

If you fill your post with insults and hate, I am going to block you. Mind you I have been known to tweak people's noses from time to time, but then again thats how I deal with people I consider trolls. I have had long and heated debates with people here, I like to wrassle after all (in a manly way of course), but I rarely block them unless I see a pattern of abuse. Perhaps I am guilty of abusing the system myself, but then again turn about is fair play. I am not going to loose sleep over it and many times I will find that while in one area I and some other clipper can be fierce opponents, in another we could still have meaningful conversations (such as the connection between background radiation and Earth's mass extinctions, I need to pick up a copy of that BBC show).

If you find yourself been block, and that really worries you, perhaps you can ask the person why, the answer might surprise you.

And what I do, mostly, is check the second box on the list, so that I don't find myself slapped on the face by what I consider rude comments. But then my curiosity gets the better of me, I click on the comment and see it and many times it is innocuous. So no harm, no foul. I am sure many of my comments are blocked as well, I do tend to be passionate about what I see and believe.

How does the ability to block someone from posting on one of your clips
protect minors?

A person might use highly offensive and coarse language ( however unlikely this might be) which isn't suitable for minors and probably isn't acceptable to most mature adults.

And since there is an ability to ignore other posters
and their clips, the ability to keep them from replying to your clips
serves only to force everyone else to ignore that person on the topic
of your clip as well.

I have already stated that the system can be abused .The system here is not perfect; it depends on the users to use it responsibly and hence is suceptible to manipulation but having no ce...

How does the ability to block someone from posting on one of your clips
protect minors?

A person might use highly offensive and coarse language ( however unlikely this might be) which isn't suitable for minors and probably isn't acceptable to most mature adults.

And since there is an ability to ignore other posters
and their clips, the ability to keep them from replying to your clips
serves only to force everyone else to ignore that person on the topic
of your clip as well.

I have already stated that the system can be abused .The system here is not perfect; it depends on the users to use it responsibly and hence is suceptible to manipulation but having no censor system can also equally be abused by certain individuals. And anyway it is not worth having a debate with a person who cannot accept/ counter an opposing view. If the best a person can do is block me because he/she can't come up with a decent argument to my view I don't see the point with having a debate with them in the first place.

I'm confused. Willhelm ... it "proves" that there's an agenda? Are you saying that if the site administrators didn't distribute the power to block comments democratically, but kept it to themselves, then it would be fairer? I can't help thinking that if the system were different and EricG had blocked someone, you'd still be claiming there was a liberal agenda at work.

So, does anyone here actually have an example of having been "censored" (i.e. prevented from commenting on someone else's clip)? It sounds like The REAL Napster is the only one, and it also seems like he's only mentioned one case, in which he was basically blocked from getting in the last word on a fairly nasty little ...

I'm confused. Willhelm ... it "proves" that there's an agenda? Are you saying that if the site administrators didn't distribute the power to block comments democratically, but kept it to themselves, then it would be fairer? I can't help thinking that if the system were different and EricG had blocked someone, you'd still be claiming there was a liberal agenda at work.

So, does anyone here actually have an example of having been "censored" (i.e. prevented from commenting on someone else's clip)? It sounds like The REAL Napster is the only one, and it also seems like he's only mentioned one case, in which he was basically blocked from getting in the last word on a fairly nasty little exchange. How does this qualify as "censorship" and as an "agenda"? Seems to me the idea is to prevent griefing and abuse, and for the most part that's what it's been used for, with a few childish and petty exceptions.

Here's a suggestion. Real Napster, N2Sooners, and willhelm, if you feel you're being denied a voice by having your comments on specific clippers' clips blocked, then just ignore those clippers. Then you won't ever have to think about it again. If those clippers don't want to hear from you, presumably you don't really need to hear from them, either, right? I don't think that's censorship. I think it's like separating two five-year-olds who can't stop fighting with each other.

And one other thing -- the title of this clip is BS. "Encourages" censorship? We now know that it's only happened a couple of times. If the site administrators have an "agenda" of "encouraging censorship" of politically incorrect views, they are doing a terrible job.

Enbar @ 9.57

I'm confused. Willhelm ... it "proves" that there's an agenda?

and...

So, does anyone here actually have an example of having been "censored" (i.e. prevented from commenting on someone else's clip)? It sounds like The REAL Napster is the only one,

No, he is not the only one, but before I tell you, there is another interesting case.

In "Arabs Will Not Progress Before They Face The Truth About Their Own History" that commenced on July 18. by Morey and latterly contested by he and I, he decided to withdraw from battle. As a parting shot after lengthy posts, he decided to ma...

Enbar @ 9.57

I'm confused. Willhelm ... it "proves" that there's an agenda?

and...

So, does anyone here actually have an example of having been "censored" (i.e. prevented from commenting on someone else's clip)? It sounds like The REAL Napster is the only one,

No, he is not the only one, but before I tell you, there is another interesting case.

In "Arabs Will Not Progress Before They Face The Truth About Their Own History" that commenced on July 18. by Morey and latterly contested by he and I, he decided to withdraw from battle. As a parting shot after lengthy posts, he decided to made the clip PRIVATE, as you can see. But here's the thing. Although it says private and is green, I certainly can post to it as before!!! Is this a glitch or intentional. I certainly would prefer it as now, so preventing a beaten foe from departing with the sandbox.

So switching from PUBLIC to PRIVATE doesn't work.

The second case is much more interesting and I'll get to it shortly. And remember, no one died. We will survive. Just remember those soldiers dying for Bush!!!

Enbar, like I said earlier

"just project the micro example of Clipmarks and use the moral imperative to apply it to society as a whole."

There is a fundemental flaw in this sort of monitoring. It lends itself to mob rule in a sense.
Please, let me repeat myself : I accept this system. I would not participate otherwise.
As to your suggestion that I just return the favor of ignoring other's opinions, that would go against my personal views. Just because some one wrongs me, a group, or society does not permit me to wrong another or deny others access to other's opinions. It would be petty. Also, again apply the moral imperative. Where would/could it ultimately lead? I sugg...

Enbar, like I said earlier

"just project the micro example of Clipmarks and use the moral imperative to apply it to society as a whole."

There is a fundemental flaw in this sort of monitoring. It lends itself to mob rule in a sense.
Please, let me repeat myself : I accept this system. I would not participate otherwise.
As to your suggestion that I just return the favor of ignoring other's opinions, that would go against my personal views. Just because some one wrongs me, a group, or society does not permit me to wrong another or deny others access to other's opinions. It would be petty. Also, again apply the moral imperative. Where would/could it ultimately lead? I suggest it does more to divide rather than to understand.
I fully support the block viewing comments feature. However, the block comments feature can only have some other purpose in my book.

To answer righthands question about going from public to private, it does work to a point. Once a user comments on or pops a clip, they will always have a link to that clip in there pops or comments list. Just as if you email a link to your clip to someone and then make that clip private, that link will still be valid. In fact you can email a link to a private clip without it ever being public. This is by design. Basically, if you want to keep your clips private, never make them public and never send out links to them. In case you are wondering, only the person that did the commenting or popping can see that clip in that list. If I were to go to your list of commented on clips, I woul...

To answer righthands question about going from public to private, it does work to a point. Once a user comments on or pops a clip, they will always have a link to that clip in there pops or comments list. Just as if you email a link to your clip to someone and then make that clip private, that link will still be valid. In fact you can email a link to a private clip without it ever being public. This is by design. Basically, if you want to keep your clips private, never make them public and never send out links to them. In case you are wondering, only the person that did the commenting or popping can see that clip in that list. If I were to go to your list of commented on clips, I would not see the private clips.

As for the subject of the clip, I probably shouldn't say anything else, but I have to make a point. I am personally very offended by the statements about us having an agenda to get a specific viewpoint across. I have stated in other clips that I am neither on the left nor the right since I agree with so many arguments from both sides. I am always open to everyone else's viewpoint and sure as hell would never try to suppress it or work for a company that does so. The only agenda we have is to help people share knowledge no matter what that knowledge is and last time I checked, our site was not called dictatorclips.com so if you don't like having control over your own clips either deal with it or move on. Now can we all get on with our lives?

After following this exhaustive thread for several days, I want to say, that I love Clipmarks for the information and sharing community. I've learned more here than anywhere else on the internet. Like I said in my profile, "Clipmarks has led me to interesting sites I never would have found."

I enjoy the intelligent, friendly banter. It's interesting to hear both sides of issues. I wouldn't want to see that stop.

However, when clippers take delight in dumping nasty comments on clips over and over again, I'd like to be able to ignore them. I haven't ignored anybody, yet. Although, it's getting harder to enjoy a clip, then read a remark that has nothing to do with the clip, but is inte...

After following this exhaustive thread for several days, I want to say, that I love Clipmarks for the information and sharing community. I've learned more here than anywhere else on the internet. Like I said in my profile, "Clipmarks has led me to interesting sites I never would have found."

I enjoy the intelligent, friendly banter. It's interesting to hear both sides of issues. I wouldn't want to see that stop.

However, when clippers take delight in dumping nasty comments on clips over and over again, I'd like to be able to ignore them. I haven't ignored anybody, yet. Although, it's getting harder to enjoy a clip, then read a remark that has nothing to do with the clip, but is intended to upset the continuity of the comments. Also, there is no reason to call people derogatory names.

Talking about an agenda. Our Clipdaddies are doing an excellent job with this site. I don't see an agenda with them. Those who can't be civil should take it somewhere else. There are other sites where people love the antagonism and get off on ripping people to shreds. Over the past few months, I've nearly quit CM because sometimes it's just not fun anymore. I've been attacked a few times. That makes me wonder why I'm spending so much time on this site. But, the interesting people and clips keep me here.

Let's just keep learning and having fun!

n2sooners said:

I seem to notice a trend in this thread. Those leaning left (the side that often claims to be the champion of free speech) seems to be the most supportive of being able to shut out people whose opinion you don't agree with, while those who lean more towards the right seem to think wide open discussions are better.

I'd put this slightly differently. To me, my conception of free speech doesn't require that I be allowed to leave comments on every clip, any time, anywhere. If someone wants to block me from commenting on his clips, I don't feel i've been censored, I feel I've been ignored. There's a difference. The fact is, n2sooners, The REAL Napster, and willhelm, you ca...

read more»

n2sooners said:

I seem to notice a trend in this thread. Those leaning left (the side that often claims to be the champion of free speech) seems to be the most supportive of being able to shut out people whose opinion you don't agree with, while those who lean more towards the right seem to think wide open discussions are better.

I'd put this slightly differently. To me, my conception of free speech doesn't require that I be allowed to leave comments on every clip, any time, anywhere. If someone wants to block me from commenting on his clips, I don't feel i've been censored, I feel I've been ignored. There's a difference. The fact is, n2sooners, The REAL Napster, and willhelm, you can still say whatever you want to say. No one's stopping you. It's just that whoever clipped the thing you want to comment on has stopped you from saying it there. You can still say it anywhere else you want to, though. To my mind, that's not censorship. It may be irritating and it may be inconvenient and it may be petty and childish, but it's not censorship.

Here's an idea. Why don't you post all the things you have been prevented from saying elsewhere right here, in this thread? I think it's safe to say no one is going to censor you here. Then you can get it off your chest and we can drop this ridiculous accusation that there's a political agenda of censorship at work.

Ooops. Let me try that again.

n2sooners said:

I seem to notice a trend in this thread. Those leaning left (the side that often claims to be the champion of free speech) seems to be the most supportive of being able to shut out people whose opinion you don't agree with, while those who lean more towards the right seem to think wide open discussions are better.

I'd put this slightly differently. To me, my conception of free speech doesn't require that I be allowed to leave comments on every clip, any time, anywhere. If someone wants to block me from commenting on his clips, I don't feel i've been censored, I feel I've been ignored. There's a difference. The fact is, n2sooners, The ...

Ooops. Let me try that again.

n2sooners said:

I seem to notice a trend in this thread. Those leaning left (the side that often claims to be the champion of free speech) seems to be the most supportive of being able to shut out people whose opinion you don't agree with, while those who lean more towards the right seem to think wide open discussions are better.

I'd put this slightly differently. To me, my conception of free speech doesn't require that I be allowed to leave comments on every clip, any time, anywhere. If someone wants to block me from commenting on his clips, I don't feel i've been censored, I feel I've been ignored. There's a difference. The fact is, n2sooners, The REAL Napster, and willhelm, you can still say whatever you want to say. No one's stopping you. It's just that whoever clipped the thing you want to comment on has stopped you from saying it there. You can still say it anywhere else you want to, though. To my mind, that's not censorship. It may be irritating and it may be inconvenient and it may be petty and childish, but it's not censorship.

Here's an idea. Why don't you post all the things you have been prevented from saying elsewhere right here, in this thread? I think it's safe to say no one is going to censor you here. Then you can get it off your chest and we can drop this ridiculous accusation that there's a political agenda of censorship at work.

Wow. How quickly a thread can be lost in itself. My main concern that was clearly spelled out in my first post was that without a series of checks and balances, the 'system' that is in place here at clipmarks to 'block user comments' from being seen by others is censorship. THAT is the issue I have, but nobody seems to understand the concept or possibility of this happening.

I can also create multiple user accounts (as many here have already done, it's not difficult) and post from those, but that's not the solution. Blocking someone else's comments from total public view should ONLY be a tool of last resort and at that point in time a moderator or admin SHOULD be invlolved. As othe...

Wow. How quickly a thread can be lost in itself. My main concern that was clearly spelled out in my first post was that without a series of checks and balances, the 'system' that is in place here at clipmarks to 'block user comments' from being seen by others is censorship. THAT is the issue I have, but nobody seems to understand the concept or possibility of this happening.

I can also create multiple user accounts (as many here have already done, it's not difficult) and post from those, but that's not the solution. Blocking someone else's comments from total public view should ONLY be a tool of last resort and at that point in time a moderator or admin SHOULD be invlolved. As others have pointed out you can ignore them , go away, post another thread.
Sure you can. But people should be held accountable for their actions, and giving this 'power' to users who would abuse it is foolish and short sighted. It's called being pro-active and not re-active. And as far as freedom of speech is concerned everyone here has the right to post comments on anothers thread UNLESS they are in violation of the Clipmarks user agreement, which some here clearly are.

In case you are wondering, only the person that did the commenting or popping can see that clip in that list. If I were to go to your list of commented on clips, I would not see the private clips.

Thank you for clearing that up. So it is like semi-private. It's public to ALL who commented but private to all others. That would seem a very reasonable solution, if one felt the need to take the football home. May I repost one of my last comments to him as I'm considering post it as why I'm a chipper!

righthand. My issue with you, my friend - you're only three years older than me so I suppose technically I can't call you 'old man' - from the beginning is that you're not in...

read more»

In case you are wondering, only the person that did the commenting or popping can see that clip in that list. If I were to go to your list of commented on clips, I would not see the private clips.

Thank you for clearing that up. So it is like semi-private. It's public to ALL who commented but private to all others. That would seem a very reasonable solution, if one felt the need to take the football home. May I repost one of my last comments to him as I'm considering post it as why I'm a chipper!

righthand. My issue with you, my friend - you're only three years older than me so I suppose technically I can't call you 'old man' - from the beginning is that you're not interested in adding anything positive to the debate,

8-05-2007 10.05am
Morey, early on you preached to me like a schoolmaster lecturing a wayward pupil. I was to accept all you stated as fact! Later you referred to me as 'old man'. Now you 'know' "you're only three years older than me". Next you'll know my DOB or conclude that I'm female, or Arab or even a Jew!

All or any of these may be true. If you fire off enough shotgun blasts then you must hit something. But it would not matter. All that matters is that the words that I type are the truth as I know it and that the sources that I use are honest!!! All the other tags that you choose for me do not matter.

And by the way my DOB is unique and not just to me!

The point is, no one can block your ability to comment. They can only block your ability to comment on certain clips.
Thus I don't agree that "to refuse to let all sides comment on a clip is petty, sad, and censorship." Petty and sad, maybe. Censorship, definitely not. Not as long as you're still free to post those very same views somewhere else. Just re-clip the relevant content, or re-clip the clip itself, and say what you have to say. That's not censorship by any stretch of the imagination.

Look at it from a human viewpoint then. In the U.S. (and many other countries) Whites and Blacks were separated almost by unwritten laws. They couldn't go to school together...

The point is, no one can block your ability to comment. They can only block your ability to comment on certain clips.
Thus I don't agree that "to refuse to let all sides comment on a clip is petty, sad, and censorship." Petty and sad, maybe. Censorship, definitely not. Not as long as you're still free to post those very same views somewhere else. Just re-clip the relevant content, or re-clip the clip itself, and say what you have to say. That's not censorship by any stretch of the imagination.

Look at it from a human viewpoint then. In the U.S. (and many other countries) Whites and Blacks were separated almost by unwritten laws. They couldn't go to school together, eat together or drink from the same water fountain. By forcing clippers to segregate their comments to a clip elsewhere, you are in fact implying the same discrimination tactics. And we all know how wrong THAT is, so why only a small handfull here 'get it' is apparently beyond me. But it's not beyond history.

The same mistake has been made and now re-made.

Actually I dont see the parallel. Those laws were compulsory. Everyone had to follow them. This is more like not inviting someone to your party than it is like enforcing across-the-board segregation.

There's actually an interesting issue at work here. The issue is: who has "ownership," in a moral sense, of a clip? The idea that you, as an individual clipper, have some degree of control over who can and can't participate in a threaded discussion based on a clip you created, suggests that you have a degree of moral ownership over your own clips, rather than that clips are simply public property and the discussion is a free-for-all. To me, there's no obvious reason why one of these perspectiv...

Actually I dont see the parallel. Those laws were compulsory. Everyone had to follow them. This is more like not inviting someone to your party than it is like enforcing across-the-board segregation.

There's actually an interesting issue at work here. The issue is: who has "ownership," in a moral sense, of a clip? The idea that you, as an individual clipper, have some degree of control over who can and can't participate in a threaded discussion based on a clip you created, suggests that you have a degree of moral ownership over your own clips, rather than that clips are simply public property and the discussion is a free-for-all. To me, there's no obvious reason why one of these perspectives is superior to the other. The idea that the first of the two is morally equivalent to censorship strikes me as highly tendentious and a little silly, however. It's simply a policy that says, if you create content on this site, you have some control over the discussion that evolves around that content. In a sense, you are a "moderator" -- to a small degree -- of the discussion on your own clips. We should all use that power responsibly. I've never banned anyone from commenting on my clips, and I doubt I ever will. But to say that simply distributing that power to all clippers equally is the same as "censorship" -- well, maybe I'm dense, but i don't see it. When everyone has exactly the same level of control, how is that censorship?

Actually I dont see the parallel. Those laws were compulsory. Everyone had to follow them. This is more like not inviting someone to your party than it is like enforcing across-the-board segregation.

There's actually an interesting issue at work here. The issue is: who has "ownership," in a moral sense, of a clip?

The only reason those 'laws' are compulsory, is because concerned individuals who's rights had been denied fought to make them laws. Before that, people just thought 'thats the way it is' Just because something is, doesn't make it right.

And I think you have disclosed the real problem at heart. We can only create 2 types of clips here- Private and Publ...

Actually I dont see the parallel. Those laws were compulsory. Everyone had to follow them. This is more like not inviting someone to your party than it is like enforcing across-the-board segregation.

There's actually an interesting issue at work here. The issue is: who has "ownership," in a moral sense, of a clip?

The only reason those 'laws' are compulsory, is because concerned individuals who's rights had been denied fought to make them laws. Before that, people just thought 'thats the way it is' Just because something is, doesn't make it right.

And I think you have disclosed the real problem at heart. We can only create 2 types of clips here- Private and Public. By default clips are set to private. You, the clipper, have to click a button make it 'public'. When something is public, like a sidewalk or water fountain or even a restauraunt , ALL are welcome, unless they break civil laws. When we create a clip and make it 'public' the same laws apply, but not the degree of control. You cannot deny someone from drinking from a public water fountain, but can deny them entrance from a public restaraunt due to no shirt or shoes. Again- laws there for a reason. The bottom line is, public things need public laws that work for the public, not against them.

In the example you gave about 'taking it elswhere', apply that to today's demonstrators. They are 'allowed' to peacefully demonstrate as long as they are 'x' number of feet away from the event going on. Can they still demonstrate? Yes. Is their message of protest censored or discrmininated against? Yes, also. By forcing them to 'take it elsewhere' their message is watered down and has less impact. And discrimination can also be considered a form of censorship. I'm very disapointed at the so-called civil rights champions here as well, these are all topics that apply here and in today's world all around us.

Well, it seems to me that your whole argument only works if you assume that clips are "public property" because they're marked "public." If we assume, as I pointed out earlier, that a person who creates content gets to have some control over what happens to that content, then the contradiction goes away. Again, the comparison to demonstrations and so forth is only valid insofar as a clip can be compared to, say, a public street. The question here is not whether it's OK to ban people from public spaces. The question is what counts as a public space. The policy implies that clips, even when marked "public," are still partially under the control of their creators. You may disagree with that pol...

Well, it seems to me that your whole argument only works if you assume that clips are "public property" because they're marked "public." If we assume, as I pointed out earlier, that a person who creates content gets to have some control over what happens to that content, then the contradiction goes away. Again, the comparison to demonstrations and so forth is only valid insofar as a clip can be compared to, say, a public street. The question here is not whether it's OK to ban people from public spaces. The question is what counts as a public space. The policy implies that clips, even when marked "public," are still partially under the control of their creators. You may disagree with that policy, but that's still not "censorship."

I think the site's founders and administrators are doing the best they can to ensure that discussion on the site stays civil and that people don't leave as a result of being victimized (in their minds at least), targeted, or harassed by griefers. It's not a perfect system, but I don't really see a better alternative. And I also don't see much evidence of widespread abuse.

Honestly, REAL, do you really feel that you're prevented from having your say here on Clipmarks? I actually think the level of ideological openness is greater on this site than almost any other community on the net that I've seen. Personally, though I lean left (far left, some would say), I subscribe to clips from you, from cniq_cniq, from BitDrifter, from willhelm, and other people whose views are very different from mine, and I read them with great interest and enthusiasm. I actually think that this is not unusual on Clipmarks. I'm a little bemused that you would feel that you personally are suffering from censorship at this site. Maybe a few comments get squelched from time to time, and i agree that's bad, and a problem, but those probably wouldn't have been high-quality conversations in the first place, frankly.

The question is what counts as a public space. The policy implies that clips, even when marked "public," are still partially under the control of their creators. You may disagree with that policy, but that's still not "censorship."

Then I guess that's the crux of the problem. Calling something 'public' but still allowing one person to be the king of that public item is in contradiction. It was never really 100% 'public' at all, just if the 'public' fits within that clipper's viewpoint.

Personally, I don't care what the Clipmarks team decides is 'fair' or equitable at this point, it is their gig. I do know however, that with the integration of Facebook (and other si...

The question is what counts as a public space. The policy implies that clips, even when marked "public," are still partially under the control of their creators. You may disagree with that policy, but that's still not "censorship."

Then I guess that's the crux of the problem. Calling something 'public' but still allowing one person to be the king of that public item is in contradiction. It was never really 100% 'public' at all, just if the 'public' fits within that clipper's viewpoint.

Personally, I don't care what the Clipmarks team decides is 'fair' or equitable at this point, it is their gig. I do know however, that with the integration of Facebook (and other sites) you are going to see every little problem here magnified on the order of 100. The issue I have brought up here in this this thread is but one. Thanks for the engaging debate BTW, good points all around from everyone.

The point is, no one can block your ability to comment. They can only block your ability to comment on certain clips.

Any even this is not strictly true!!!

Remember this is ClipMarks!!! What does that allow you do??? Clip! Clip anything, even ClipMarks itself! So if someone prevents you adding comments to ANY clip that they happened to start, then you can restart it again. Or you can post it to a blog!

.

So, if the clipper who used the public clipmarks to send a private message to another clipper, now indicates her withdrawal of her unfortunate remarks said in a very very heated moments then she'll find that I'm more than forgiving. She a...

The point is, no one can block your ability to comment. They can only block your ability to comment on certain clips.

Any even this is not strictly true!!!

Remember this is ClipMarks!!! What does that allow you do??? Clip! Clip anything, even ClipMarks itself! So if someone prevents you adding comments to ANY clip that they happened to start, then you can restart it again. Or you can post it to a blog!

.

So, if the clipper who used the public clipmarks to send a private message to another clipper, now indicates her withdrawal of her unfortunate remarks said in a very very heated moments then she'll find that I'm more than forgiving. She appeared to offering a general apology to many here recently, so maybe she'd extend her Christianity towards me. I withdraw any doubts that I might have hinted at, as to her femininity.

She appeared to offering a general apology to many here recently,

No, I did not apologise to the Clipmark community. I owed them no apologies.. Yet again you assume too much.

Don't allude to me in your comment, have the courage to say my name. You are referring to me. Righthand, from the moment you came on Clipmarks you've set out to antagonise everyone and in a weak moment you succeeded with me. I don't want to have to deal with people like you. It's that simple. I do not like you. You have gone out of your way to attack me. Every attempt I have made to stop you has failed. I have asked you to stop and you simply won't. You're a cruel and viscious humand be...

She appeared to offering a general apology to many here recently,

No, I did not apologise to the Clipmark community. I owed them no apologies.. Yet again you assume too much.

Don't allude to me in your comment, have the courage to say my name. You are referring to me. Righthand, from the moment you came on Clipmarks you've set out to antagonise everyone and in a weak moment you succeeded with me. I don't want to have to deal with people like you. It's that simple. I do not like you. You have gone out of your way to attack me. Every attempt I have made to stop you has failed. I have asked you to stop and you simply won't. You're a cruel and viscious humand being So, I will remove myself from Clipmarks. I have had enough as I do not know how to stop you. So, score one for you, I bid you goodbye.

Don't allude to me in your comment, have the courage to say my name. You are referring to me. Righthand, from the moment you came on Clipmarks you've set out to antagonise everyone and in a weak moment you succeeded with me. I don't want to have to deal with people like you. It's that simple. I do not like you. You have gone out of your way to attack me. Every attempt I have made to stop you has failed. I have asked you to stop and you simply won't. You're a cruel and viscious humand being So, I will remove myself from Clipmarks. I have had enough as I do not know how to stop you. So, score one for you, I bid you goodbye.

THIS is exactly why the block comments feature should ...

Don't allude to me in your comment, have the courage to say my name. You are referring to me. Righthand, from the moment you came on Clipmarks you've set out to antagonise everyone and in a weak moment you succeeded with me. I don't want to have to deal with people like you. It's that simple. I do not like you. You have gone out of your way to attack me. Every attempt I have made to stop you has failed. I have asked you to stop and you simply won't. You're a cruel and viscious humand being So, I will remove myself from Clipmarks. I have had enough as I do not know how to stop you. So, score one for you, I bid you goodbye.

THIS is exactly why the block comments feature should be tied in directly to an admin or moderator. If things have progressed this far it is in the best interests of the community and the clippers to have the higher powers intervene. Instead, we see the end result of the futility of such a feature that results in a good clipper leaving and not-so-good clipper staying on. Remember, if you build it, they will come. If you build it wrong, they will not show up or they will leave. Simple as that.

Michellezm 7-14-2007 4.44pm
Filby, you are nothing but a nasty vicious troll. You are attacking, undeservedly, the nicest person on Clipmarks. How dare you!!! You coward. You hide behind your anonymity and hurl judgments at someone you don't even know But you have displayed to us all the type of person you are and it's not a pleasant sight. If there's a slimy person on Clipmarks, it's you. I notice you haven't CLIPPED ONE SINGLE ITEM, yet you've had the nerve to comment on 28. Clipmarks is the poorer for having you on.

Michellezm 7-14-2007 5.23pm
[url=/clipmark/2F38D072-8F3B-4D63-9932-64197979F18C/]I c...

Michellezm 7-14-2007 4.44pm
Filby, you are nothing but a nasty vicious troll. You are attacking, undeservedly, the nicest person on Clipmarks. How dare you!!! You coward. You hide behind your anonymity and hurl judgments at someone you don't even know But you have displayed to us all the type of person you are and it's not a pleasant sight. If there's a slimy person on Clipmarks, it's you. I notice you haven't CLIPPED ONE SINGLE ITEM, yet you've had the nerve to comment on 28. Clipmarks is the poorer for having you on.

Michellezm 7-14-2007 5.23pm
I cannot recall when last I felt this much anger. I am enraged at the absolute injustice of those words aimed at you. One nice thing though, we have the power to screen out or censor another clipper and this individual can be shunned and shut out if he/she does not, or cannot control themselves. Filby's rant was so bizarre that I wonder if he/she is not actually mentally ill or of sub-normal intelligence. It's a distinct possibility.


Filby's was over the top and he was reprimanded by others in a correct fashion as you can check. Some allowance must be given to a newbie and there is no need for abuse but there is more.

I notice you haven't CLIPPED ONE SINGLE ITEM, yet you've had the nerve
to comment on 28. Clipmarks is the poorer for having you on.

...is disturbing. With such attacks then one clip is more than we should expect!

righthand 7-23-2007 9.09pm

we have the power to screen out or censor another clipper and this individual can be shunned and shut out if he/she does not, or cannot control themselves.

Please explain. Who is the 'we' that you write of?


Michellezm 7-23-2007 9.41 pm

The comment was directed at Dorine and the "we" I was referring to was the both of us (but that, obviously, doesn't preclude anyone else from doing the same). Some people are so persistently offensive that in order to enjoy the experience of Clipmarks one has to take drastic action. It's always a pity to have to do it, but necessary at times...

righthand 7-23-2007 9.09pm

we have the power to screen out or censor another clipper and this individual can be shunned and shut out if he/she does not, or cannot control themselves.

Please explain. Who is the 'we' that you write of?


Michellezm 7-23-2007 9.41 pm

The comment was directed at Dorine and the "we" I was referring to was the both of us (but that, obviously, doesn't preclude anyone else from doing the same). Some people are so persistently offensive that in order to enjoy the experience of Clipmarks one has to take drastic action. It's always a pity to have to do it, but necessary at times. So, righthand, if you ever find me offensive, you have the power to stop seeing my clips, stop me from commenting on your clips and hide my comments on other people's clips. I thought it was a brilliant Clipmark idea and gives each clipper the right to banish the horrible and focus on the enjoyable.


righthand 7-25-2007 12.17pm

I love Clipmarks. I'm only a relative newbie on Clipmarks. It is less than two months. I got attacked by rightwing fascist early on.

I'll always watch our for the bullied. It's in my nature. When I see an attack on a newbie then I'll try to aid him/her. Else where will be no newbies. So I'll try anyway. When I read...

we have the power to screen out or censor another clipper and this individual can be shunned and shut out if he/she does not, or cannot control themselves.

..then I get very worried. It infers that there is some hidden censorship or power in operation. Your explanation ...

The comment was directed at Dorine and the "we" I was referring to was the both of us (but that, obviously, doesn't preclude anyone else from doing the same).

...does not hold up. [b]If you did not intend others to

...If you did not intend others to read your 'private' message then an email would have been proper and not for all to see.

If there's a slimy person on Clipmarks, it's you. I notice you haven't CLIPPED ONE SINGLE ITEM, yet you've had the nerve to comment on 28. Clipmarks is the poorer for having you on

..is excessive, IMO. If I was that newbie then I'd think for a long time before I'd get involved further with Clipmarks. I've pondered the correct manner of handling this. Should I have posted a separate clip?

Michellezm 7-25-2007 4.17pm

Righthand, you're just spoiling for an argument and I won't bite. As...

...If you did not intend others to read your 'private' message then an email would have been proper and not for all to see.

If there's a slimy person on Clipmarks, it's you. I notice you haven't CLIPPED ONE SINGLE ITEM, yet you've had the nerve to comment on 28. Clipmarks is the poorer for having you on

..is excessive, IMO. If I was that newbie then I'd think for a long time before I'd get involved further with Clipmarks. I've pondered the correct manner of handling this. Should I have posted a separate clip?

Michellezm 7-25-2007 4.17pm

Righthand, you're just spoiling for an argument and I won't bite. As for my discussion with Dorine, I'm entitled to say what I want, when I want to, provided I don't deliberately set out to hurt people. I don't need you to tell me when and how I communicate. I suggest you go trawling/trolling/badgering someone else. You're splitting hairs over inconsequential things - things that don't even concern you and I suspect your motive is to provoke an argument Don't start with me, bud! And yes, I have banished people and will do it again if necessary.

righthand 7-25-2007 7.17pm

You're splitting hairs over inconsequential things - things that don't even concern you and I suspect your motive is to provoke an argument Don't start with me, bud! And yes, I have banished people and will do it again if necessary.

Bullying will always concern me. Obviously it is admitted that this is repeat behaviour. Very unladylike. I cannot remember ever being threatened in this fashion by a real female.

The NAZI connection.

Some would suggest that there was no need for righthand after Michellezm interfered on Dorine1722's behalf.
Firstly, others had dealt well with the matter. M's input was over the top, designed to scare off newbies.
Secondly, she infer that she had far far more powerful than any individual clipper.
Thirdly, she threatened and used her banishment power, which is intended to intimidate.

But why should this concern me? Well, I believe that this concerns everyone. She threatened further banishment so obviously she had learnt that her tactics wok for her. I debated at lenght as to the correct action. My own sense of personal dignity said that she must ...

The NAZI connection.

Some would suggest that there was no need for righthand after Michellezm interfered on Dorine1722's behalf.
Firstly, others had dealt well with the matter. M's input was over the top, designed to scare off newbies.
Secondly, she infer that she had far far more powerful than any individual clipper.
Thirdly, she threatened and used her banishment power, which is intended to intimidate.

But why should this concern me? Well, I believe that this concerns everyone. She threatened further banishment so obviously she had learnt that her tactics wok for her. I debated at lenght as to the correct action. My own sense of personal dignity said that she must be confronted while the little coward in us all baulked at confrontation where all the male chauvinists and some of the 'hood' would feel compelled to support her, right or wrong. So I procrastinated.

The lesson of the good people of Germany not standing up to be counted at the correct time for the infirm, the gypsies, and finally the Jews against the Nazis until it was too late, has never been lost on me. Yes, it was easier to do nothing for me also until...


Michellezm 8-05-2007 8.34pm

I have used this option, and abused it in the past. I recanted, reinstated the banished, and have now only excommunicated the gratuitously nasty, perverted and aggressive - the number can still be counted on one hand.


This was sending a message directly to me as I'm the only one banished/excommunicated by her. She "abused it in the past"but now "the gratuitously nasty, perverted and aggressive - the number can still be counted on one hand" only are excluded.

I did not respond!
As well as being somewhat of a moral coward, I'm also a great believer of giving someone enough rope and they'll hang themselves. Sure enough..

egoldstein said:

only 2 users in the past 2 months have prevented you from commenting on their clips

(he was replying to will...)

Hi! I'm one of them

Will, can very well call this censorship, and IMO, he's right, I AM censoring him. I find his comments disrespectful, insulting and downright mean, so I'd rather not see his comments, or have him comment on any clip I enter. And that's perfectly fine to me.

I don't see much of a difference between him being able to blatantly tell people they have a lack on intelligence, or other such insults and me deciding I don't want to read them & even have them on my clips.

I think Will is the only person I have censored, Real, n2 & othe...

egoldstein said:

only 2 users in the past 2 months have prevented you from commenting on their clips

(he was replying to will...)

Hi! I'm one of them

Will, can very well call this censorship, and IMO, he's right, I AM censoring him. I find his comments disrespectful, insulting and downright mean, so I'd rather not see his comments, or have him comment on any clip I enter. And that's perfectly fine to me.

I don't see much of a difference between him being able to blatantly tell people they have a lack on intelligence, or other such insults and me deciding I don't want to read them & even have them on my clips.

I think Will is the only person I have censored, Real, n2 & others who often I butt heads with are usually cordial (compared to will) and usually stick to getting their point across without all the name calling and meanness. So he (Will) can't cay I'm censoring out other's points of view... and only leaving those that agree with me. (god, I'd have very few left to converse with if i censored/blocked everyone who ever disagreed with me

This is IMO, how Eric & the gang intended for this system to be used. And trust me I was one of the first ones to call foul when they implemented it, but then I saw it for what it was intended for...

Now I'm sure Will ... will ... come back and say how I'm too stupid to see past his "sometimes emotional" comments to see the truth.. blah blah blah...

Hi alanocu, not sure if you noticed but I already said that I have been away from any conversation at CM for a while, and I almost always speak in general, even when I'm giving a shout out to any one person, I believe this is exactly how the etiquettes of open groups have been defined. It needs no telling but I have nothing against anyone on CM, be that michellezm or righthand, but I know one thing from my experience at other internet groups: those who leave due to any reasons almost always loose. Leaving is not a solution under any circumstances, you may take a break (highly advisable) or you may just not participate. You do a disservice to not only the group, but to all the ...

Hi alanocu, not sure if you noticed but I already said that I have been away from any conversation at CM for a while, and I almost always speak in general, even when I'm giving a shout out to any one person, I believe this is exactly how the etiquettes of open groups have been defined. It needs no telling but I have nothing against anyone on CM, be that michellezm or righthand, but I know one thing from my experience at other internet groups: those who leave due to any reasons almost always loose. Leaving is not a solution under any circumstances, you may take a break (highly advisable) or you may just not participate. You do a disservice to not only the group, but to all the participants by leaving. And that is all what I was trying to say. I will pop the clips you refer, I have most likely missed them.

The first person who commented on any of my clipmarks was a person who has done nothing but follow me and harass me for a few years now. The person is an argumentative, braindead twat. I was sadly disappointed to see this happen, but not surprised. But was especially glad when I found that I could block that person from from commenting on and/or reading my clipmarks. And did so immediately and have no bad feelings or regrets. Why? Because this person follows and harasses me for the very purpose of harassment and shouting down my message.

Why should the Mods be tasked with getting into the middle of 10,000 petty arguments? Let each clipper decide for themselves. For crying out loud this is ...

The first person who commented on any of my clipmarks was a person who has done nothing but follow me and harass me for a few years now. The person is an argumentative, braindead twat. I was sadly disappointed to see this happen, but not surprised. But was especially glad when I found that I could block that person from from commenting on and/or reading my clipmarks. And did so immediately and have no bad feelings or regrets. Why? Because this person follows and harasses me for the very purpose of harassment and shouting down my message.

Why should the Mods be tasked with getting into the middle of 10,000 petty arguments? Let each clipper decide for themselves. For crying out loud this is free, and a great service, and am surprised so many can find so much wrong with this great service.

Cheers-
phil jayhan

Saw this a bit late, and when I saw the number of comments I thought it looked like a good discussion. Very imaginative. It looks like if there is anything going on word gets round.
I always thought censorship was being denied information, being rendered unable to put forward an opinion being gagged, and refusing to listen ignorance, but that is only semantics. If someone blocked me, it would mean I would have to comment on something else on another clip. I wouldn't consider it a loss. From what I can see blocking someone just devalues a clip, But it's can be equivalent to the clipper shooting themselves in the foot if abused. When comments are personal or offensive, their nature can be clea...

Saw this a bit late, and when I saw the number of comments I thought it looked like a good discussion. Very imaginative. It looks like if there is anything going on word gets round.
I always thought censorship was being denied information, being rendered unable to put forward an opinion being gagged, and refusing to listen ignorance, but that is only semantics. If someone blocked me, it would mean I would have to comment on something else on another clip. I wouldn't consider it a loss. From what I can see blocking someone just devalues a clip, But it's can be equivalent to the clipper shooting themselves in the foot if abused. When comments are personal or offensive, their nature can be clear to everyone. The clipper just has to have faith in the judgment of people whether they agree or not, and remember there are many clips about subjects, that can be of emotional or intellectual value, and heated arguments can get lost in the flames. It was a decision where since you can't please everyone, try and upset the least. Sometimes it takes a while before the balance is right.
If everyone said they liked me I'd know at least some of them were lying. If an argument on a clip of mine or one for which I am getting Emails gets personal or pointless, People can argue all they like, I'll just stop getting the email and let them give their two bit's worth to their hearts content.

Popped for the discussion.
This whole deal was a little before my arrival so I'm just randomly coming across it now. I certainly didn't care enough to read every comment, but there were some great ones:

enbar said:

There's actually an interesting issue at work here. The issue is: who
has "ownership," in a moral sense, of a clip? The idea that you, as an
individual clipper, have some degree of control over who can and can't
participate in a threaded discussion based on a clip you created,
suggests that you have a degree of moral ownership over your own clips,
rather than that clips are simply public property and the discussion is
a free-for-all. To me, there's no obvious reason why one o...

Popped for the discussion.
This whole deal was a little before my arrival so I'm just randomly coming across it now. I certainly didn't care enough to read every comment, but there were some great ones:

enbar said:

There's actually an interesting issue at work here. The issue is: who
has "ownership," in a moral sense, of a clip? The idea that you, as an
individual clipper, have some degree of control over who can and can't
participate in a threaded discussion based on a clip you created,
suggests that you have a degree of moral ownership over your own clips,
rather than that clips are simply public property and the discussion is
a free-for-all. To me, there's no obvious reason why one of these
perspectives is superior to the other.