This news comes just at the time where I was considering how horrible the next two months would seem on Clipmarks. I get tired of seeing only political clips on the front page(s), but if that is what interests other people right now, then they should clip a lot about it.

However, I am really discouraged by the nasty tone commenting has taken recently. I'm probably guilty of some of it myself. I would like to gently remind my fellow Clippers that we can speak the truth in love. I have a whole mess of clips about internet manners. I encourage everyone to be the change they'd like to see on Clipmarks (sorry for ...

This news comes just at the time where I was considering how horrible the next two months would seem on Clipmarks. I get tired of seeing only political clips on the front page(s), but if that is what interests other people right now, then they should clip a lot about it.

However, I am really discouraged by the nasty tone commenting has taken recently. I'm probably guilty of some of it myself. I would like to gently remind my fellow Clippers that we can speak the truth in love. I have a whole mess of clips about internet manners. I encourage everyone to be the change they'd like to see on Clipmarks (sorry for the cliche). If we want the personal attacks to stop, then we need to stop using them. Don't get baited into a personal argument.

Thank you for giving me a clip on which to discuss this.

controlled by a disproportionately loud group of users.

I will comment as I read your message, so please pardon.

I do not understand how Clipmarks appears to be "disproportionately controlled by loud group of users"? If I had seen it coming from a visitor then I would have ignored it, but this coming from the makers of this site? I fail to understand.

Your site is democratic by design (as you mentioned). If we're in the middle of election season in America and if majority of the users here are from America and are passionately discussing their hearts out (regardless of their motives, agenda, party politics etc) then how is it disproportionately controlled? I also do not ...

controlled by a disproportionately loud group of users.

I will comment as I read your message, so please pardon.

I do not understand how Clipmarks appears to be "disproportionately controlled by loud group of users"? If I had seen it coming from a visitor then I would have ignored it, but this coming from the makers of this site? I fail to understand.

Your site is democratic by design (as you mentioned). If we're in the middle of election season in America and if majority of the users here are from America and are passionately discussing their hearts out (regardless of their motives, agenda, party politics etc) then how is it disproportionately controlled? I also do not understand what do you mean by loud in technical terms?

The people are either clipping, popping and/or commenting. That is the most they can do here. I understand that some of us are probably clipping, popping and commenting a lot based on the aggressive feelings and/or political agenda, but still, this reflects the reality on the ground and is no way indicative of something going wrong.

More as I read more of your message.

I understand the concern. I've pretty much withdrawn from discussion entirely due to the tone that surfaces all too often, and not just on political clips.
I would also acknowledge the desire of the "home" page to reflect the highest standards, as for months before ever becoming a clipper, I would just scroll there as an unregistered user. That home page is what I initially liked about the site, and only later did I come to appreciate the add-on software. I liked being able to see a wide variety of current topics, events, and ideas in one place.

So I understand feeling the need to classify clips by topic so politics (or whatever) aren't overwhelming. However, I would still urge cauti...

I understand the concern. I've pretty much withdrawn from discussion entirely due to the tone that surfaces all too often, and not just on political clips.
I would also acknowledge the desire of the "home" page to reflect the highest standards, as for months before ever becoming a clipper, I would just scroll there as an unregistered user. That home page is what I initially liked about the site, and only later did I come to appreciate the add-on software. I liked being able to see a wide variety of current topics, events, and ideas in one place.

So I understand feeling the need to classify clips by topic so politics (or whatever) aren't overwhelming. However, I would still urge caution on classfying them in specific ways, as I know if I had to browse by subjects when I was unregistered, I probably wouldn't have bothered, and just moved on and used another resource to browse by topic that's already available (Digg, Stumbleupon, news portals, etc). It's finding things I wouldn't even know to look for or ever come across on my own that I like seeing here. If clips are over-catagorized, I might not bother browsing through certain subjects I tell myself aren't important, and thus I might not ever see certain gems.

I see both ways there, and truthfully am not sure of the solution either. I'm sure ya'll think of these things way more than I.

cptenaud It would be nice if you had a way of registering a complaint against people who threaten you with physical harm. Even if they seem to be a part of your team. Or at least that is what they pretend to be. You sir, are actually one of the people this clip is about. And I don't care if you live in Wisconsin or not. You see, when you create a clip you get sent emails on ALL the comments. And if you comment on another clip, you can recieve ALL the comments from those as well. Even the ones made behind your back in a blocked clip that you cannot respond to.

For the record, I have not blocked not one single user here, as I feel everyone has a right to ...

cptenaud It would be nice if you had a way of registering a complaint against people who threaten you with physical harm. Even if they seem to be a part of your team. Or at least that is what they pretend to be. You sir, are actually one of the people this clip is about. And I don't care if you live in Wisconsin or not. You see, when you create a clip you get sent emails on ALL the comments. And if you comment on another clip, you can recieve ALL the comments from those as well. Even the ones made behind your back in a blocked clip that you cannot respond to.

For the record, I have not blocked not one single user here, as I feel everyone has a right to voice their opinion. When you cross the line and deliberately use profane ridden titles to your clip and have no remorse or regard for others who might see it, then you lose that right. Debbyski was asked a few times politely by Eric to comply with this simple rule.

-cpttenaud

I have every single comment here all archived in emails, so if you want to be foolish be my guest. My lawyer has already looked over the materials in question and encourages you to pursue your 'options'. Make sure you bring your wallet.

As for Clipmarks arriving at this point I warned everyone here over a year ago this is where you would end up and I was right.

It may be a good thing to segregate topics to avoid so much mish mash, but we will see. The BLOCK feature here is still useless and only creates barriers and solves nothing.

Eric when you're ready for my input again, you know how to reach me. Since I am one of the original co-inventors of the technology used here, don't throw away good advice for free. That would also be foolish.

I liked that everything wasn't segregated, because a subject that I
normally would not be interested in would catch my attention and I
would read about it.

I feel the same, like many have said about finding something interesting in someone else's clip...if things are put in too many categories, then we have to jump here and there just to look around. That takes up time when we could be clipping, so most of us would probably be clipping instead of popping and making comments. Or the other way around...the only problem I have noticed is sometimes there has been a language barrier... some clips I can't read or comment on, and I wonder if anyone else at least acknowledges that the...

I liked that everything wasn't segregated, because a subject that I
normally would not be interested in would catch my attention and I
would read about it.

I feel the same, like many have said about finding something interesting in someone else's clip...if things are put in too many categories, then we have to jump here and there just to look around. That takes up time when we could be clipping, so most of us would probably be clipping instead of popping and making comments. Or the other way around...the only problem I have noticed is sometimes there has been a language barrier... some clips I can't read or comment on, and I wonder if anyone else at least acknowledges that they are here?

But anyway, I know there are a lot of the fore mentioned categories I don't think will be of interest to me. I have sent clips to Digg I haven't done that before I joined Clipmarks and I find it boring to submit and then be sent to my profile...unless I choose a category..which I never do. Because I feel more comfortable here...

I think everyone here has done a great job, and there are always going to be some hot heads, or hot discussions...but death threats and name calling, no thats for one of those kid sites...I know I couldn't stand that on a daily basis...But I really have enjoyed being a clipper...

Silvanraihane said-

yes it has got very political and many use this site to spout thier
anger. I skip a lot of the policical stuff. I am only interested in
nature, animals, new inventions and any useful information that helps
in my daily life. all this political stuff does not belong on here!

I think this seems to sum up what many people seem to feel.
I have to disagree with the part about political stuff not belonging on here. While I haven't been active on this site very long one of it's greater strengths seems to be the versatility with which it can be used. Clipmarks makes it easy to suit your own needs.
In the case of someone who does not want to follow political rants in...

Silvanraihane said-

yes it has got very political and many use this site to spout thier
anger. I skip a lot of the policical stuff. I am only interested in
nature, animals, new inventions and any useful information that helps
in my daily life. all this political stuff does not belong on here!

I think this seems to sum up what many people seem to feel.
I have to disagree with the part about political stuff not belonging on here. While I haven't been active on this site very long one of it's greater strengths seems to be the versatility with which it can be used. Clipmarks makes it easy to suit your own needs.
In the case of someone who does not want to follow political rants in general just ignore them! Or pick some guides you like and just follow them. Certainly at times the political stuff oozes it's way into other clips as well but I don't see that as a huge problem.
I like to check out a lot of different clips from different political points of view. At times I do tire of the same old arguments and cliched thinking reappearing but again this site gives me plenty of ways to avoid that.
At times the comments and attacks can become too personal, but that is a flaw that is a side effect of a well designed and run site in my opinion. I'm concerned that in trying to remedy any problems here that Clipmarks might cut off a hand because of an offending finger.
I do strongly suggest you keep the current method of checking out clips (recently popped,commented,new etc.) and only use categories as an additional tool if it must be done at all. I feel as others have mentioned that I will miss good clips by skipping whole categories.
Eric, thanks for all your effort and time you have put into this site. It is appreciated by many.

And proves my point exactly. In the spirit of cooperation I will not respond in kind.

Wow! now there's a first.

Eric do you want input (from everyone) are not. CMs should be more concerned with those that abuse it on a daily basis more so than what clips are shown on the initial start up.

If you really want to improve CMs - go after the actual trolls whose sole intent is to drive home their agenda in the meanest way and insult anyone who does not agree with them. I have no problem with heated arguments, I do with stupidity and outright harassment.

So go ahead and chastise me for being off topic and out of line, would it be OK to clip this clip so others can say what th...

And proves my point exactly. In the spirit of cooperation I will not respond in kind.

Wow! now there's a first.

Eric do you want input (from everyone) are not. CMs should be more concerned with those that abuse it on a daily basis more so than what clips are shown on the initial start up.

If you really want to improve CMs - go after the actual trolls whose sole intent is to drive home their agenda in the meanest way and insult anyone who does not agree with them. I have no problem with heated arguments, I do with stupidity and outright harassment.

So go ahead and chastise me for being off topic and out of line, would it be OK to clip this clip so others can say what they think without being scolded by you?. You either want truthful input or you don't if you don't then do not pretend you do.

Clipmarks already become noticeable forum a any forum has to govern by some simple general rules. First of all it mandatory the presence of main or front page with short sentences of hot stuff and links to other divisions, which must include separated political (may be with economical), all rest topics: science, culture, home and lifestyle and so on - it wouldn't be equal to the politic by volume (but not by value). One more chapter have to include clear and simple code of conduct with possible information and discussion of routine and technical questions. Clipmarks has well deserved high reputation in Internet, this is our virtual club (or home for somebody), and the place of our intera...

Clipmarks already become noticeable forum a any forum has to govern by some simple general rules. First of all it mandatory the presence of main or front page with short sentences of hot stuff and links to other divisions, which must include separated political (may be with economical), all rest topics: science, culture, home and lifestyle and so on - it wouldn't be equal to the politic by volume (but not by value). One more chapter have to include clear and simple code of conduct with possible information and discussion of routine and technical questions. Clipmarks has well deserved high reputation in Internet, this is our virtual club (or home for somebody), and the place of our interaction and exchange of ideas have to get a renovation from time to time.

It is too bad that cptenaud and napster actually extended their political feud into the clip about trying to change the site so that political feuds don't spill into every clip.

It's even worse because I think cptenaud and napster are actually both pretty good clippers when they aren't trying to tear each other apart.

What do I think? Everyone has bad days. Most clippers are positive and constructive most of the time. I am certainly a politically oriented clipper, but I like that better because the public forum is a great place to exchange and refine ideas. Clipping pretty pictures rarely produces anything interesting or insightful in terms of comments or discourse or community interaction...

It is too bad that cptenaud and napster actually extended their political feud into the clip about trying to change the site so that political feuds don't spill into every clip.

It's even worse because I think cptenaud and napster are actually both pretty good clippers when they aren't trying to tear each other apart.

What do I think? Everyone has bad days. Most clippers are positive and constructive most of the time. I am certainly a politically oriented clipper, but I like that better because the public forum is a great place to exchange and refine ideas. Clipping pretty pictures rarely produces anything interesting or insightful in terms of comments or discourse or community interaction.

The problem I see in a lot of political arguments is that they are based on personal value judgments and ad hominem attacks, rather than reasoning and evidence. But logic and research on not something you can force a person to do. If someone wants to say something stupid and hurtful, there is very little you can do to stop that.

What could make it better? How about the ability to edit and remove your own remarks on other people's clips? Right now we have insufficient self-censorship tools, so if I make an ill-concieved and ultimately antagonistic post in the heat of the moment, I cannot ammend or retract it when cooler heads prevail. What is worse, since comments are listed sequentially, a new reader will see the negative comment before they discover that it has been retracted.

I think most clippers, though intense and passionate about their issues, are also well informed and well reasoned people. If things get out of hand, give us the tools to make it right.

I think if you give us the tools to censor ourselves, we will chose to do so for you. If you try to censor us or let us censor others, that will only escalate the situation and people will start blaming each other.

More importantly, I think that isolating political clippers is a bad idea. Most of the venom developes in circles of left-only clippers or right-only clippers. Clips among these people turn into echo chambers, and grow increasingly snide, lose substance, and stop respecting people who are different.

A perfect example of this is the use of ugly nicknames for politicians. These are acceptable if you only preach to the choir, but aren't if you have to talk in a civil way to someone who disagrees with you. I think people have retreated into their circles of guides, and as a result lose touch with the moderating influence of the diverse clipmarks community.

Personally, I find I am more tolleran...

More importantly, I think that isolating political clippers is a bad idea. Most of the venom developes in circles of left-only clippers or right-only clippers. Clips among these people turn into echo chambers, and grow increasingly snide, lose substance, and stop respecting people who are different.

A perfect example of this is the use of ugly nicknames for politicians. These are acceptable if you only preach to the choir, but aren't if you have to talk in a civil way to someone who disagrees with you. I think people have retreated into their circles of guides, and as a result lose touch with the moderating influence of the diverse clipmarks community.

Personally, I find I am more tollerant and insightful when I am commenting on a conservative clip rather than just hanging out with other liberals bashing the GOP. Although I love my liberal clipfriends, I feel I learn more from clippers like Willhelm, Record Sage, Cniq-Cniq, or Rustee, most of whom regularly disagree with me, with gusto, but also respect!

So please, don't isolate anybody. Bringing the community together will inspire more civility than isolation. We shouldn't forget that people who disagree with us are real and rational people. That's what I love about clipmarks, is it gives me a chance to cross party lines and see the logic behind conservative beliefs that I disagree with.

I've even discovered on a lot of issues, we aren't so different as I had thought.

Well, Tanyamm, that might be good for some clips, I know that among certain clippers it is not a question of monopolizing, but simply thoroughly making ones point. Record Sage and I have on numerous occasions had to lay out our argumentation at extraordinary length, but the thoroughness pays off.

Perhaps we could do this instead: give the clipper the ability to shut down a clip and lock commentary. I do remember when one clip of mine was once highjacked for a 90+ comment personal vendetta between two clippers who I otherwise respect. As the clipper, I had lost control of my own clip and would have liked the power to lock the comments so that the personal attacks could be stopped. This is a...

Well, Tanyamm, that might be good for some clips, I know that among certain clippers it is not a question of monopolizing, but simply thoroughly making ones point. Record Sage and I have on numerous occasions had to lay out our argumentation at extraordinary length, but the thoroughness pays off.

Perhaps we could do this instead: give the clipper the ability to shut down a clip and lock commentary. I do remember when one clip of mine was once highjacked for a 90+ comment personal vendetta between two clippers who I otherwise respect. As the clipper, I had lost control of my own clip and would have liked the power to lock the comments so that the personal attacks could be stopped. This is actually a very common power on threads in more conventional chat rooms.

But honestly I think the more people write, the better their ideas are. Don't limit the quantity, take steps to control the quality. If a clip gets out of hand, we certainly need to be able to shut it down. The original issue of the clip can always be clipped again later when everyone has cooled off.

Maybe there could be a limit as to how many comments one person could make on a clip

Seems like a reasonable idea, perhaps could be improved by adding time limit on how soon one can add more comments after the first few. For example, if there is a limit of 5 comments per clip per clipper, then it should be timed like "within 24 hours" (or less). This way, the clip won't be unnecessarily cluttered and people will have more time to think before they make comments in haste.

I agree with Austin's comment above that it takes time to be thorough with one's point. But above idea by tanyamm seems logical given we don't want this site to become digg/reddit (honestly speaking, more t...

Maybe there could be a limit as to how many comments one person could make on a clip

Seems like a reasonable idea, perhaps could be improved by adding time limit on how soon one can add more comments after the first few. For example, if there is a limit of 5 comments per clip per clipper, then it should be timed like "within 24 hours" (or less). This way, the clip won't be unnecessarily cluttered and people will have more time to think before they make comments in haste.

I agree with Austin's comment above that it takes time to be thorough with one's point. But above idea by tanyamm seems logical given we don't want this site to become digg/reddit (honestly speaking, more than 20-30 comments anywhere is a waste of time for other people to join). This clip has reached 50 comments, what are the chances everyone reading everything here?

When I search the CM site for "palin" I get 500 hits - more than I've ever seen before. If nothing else, it's stirred up a lot of activity. As for imposing limits, there already is a 2,000-character limit per comment and a similar limit for clips. Sometimes things go over 2,000 characters and there's no choice other than to spread it out. Would limiting the number of comments one person can make be for consecutive or cumulative comments. Sometimes clips encourage a lively dialog among two or more clippers and that's good, too, even if it's somewhat off topic. This is not only for sharing information, it's also a social group.

The current furor is mainly political, which is always an o...

When I search the CM site for "palin" I get 500 hits - more than I've ever seen before. If nothing else, it's stirred up a lot of activity. As for imposing limits, there already is a 2,000-character limit per comment and a similar limit for clips. Sometimes things go over 2,000 characters and there's no choice other than to spread it out. Would limiting the number of comments one person can make be for consecutive or cumulative comments. Sometimes clips encourage a lively dialog among two or more clippers and that's good, too, even if it's somewhat off topic. This is not only for sharing information, it's also a social group.

The current furor is mainly political, which is always an opportunity for things to get nasty. People on both sides end up belittling, name-calling and insulting each other and sometimes things get too heated, but it usually subsides.

I occasionally see things that really rile me, and make me want to zing right back. In person, I'd probably have to fight the urge to land a punch in the face. On the other hand, I'm alone in the privacy of my home; I can tell myself, "what an ass" and go do something else for a while. When I come back, it doesn't seem so bad.

Wait 'til November when the results are in; there'll be some sore losers, but I think it'll quiet down.

Seems like a reasonable idea, perhaps could be improved by adding time
limit on how soon one can add more comments after the first few

Can't see that working well because it would disadvantage anyone living in a different time zone to the USA. By the time we at the butt-end of the world wake up, the quota of comments would most likely have been filled.

I still think though that the best course of action would be to give everyone the opportunity to filter out clippers on the 'global' roll. That way we can individually block out clippers and subject matters, not to mention spam clippers, that we have no interest in. That way everyone can streamline Clipmarks to suit their ow...

Seems like a reasonable idea, perhaps could be improved by adding time
limit on how soon one can add more comments after the first few

Can't see that working well because it would disadvantage anyone living in a different time zone to the USA. By the time we at the butt-end of the world wake up, the quota of comments would most likely have been filled.

I still think though that the best course of action would be to give everyone the opportunity to filter out clippers on the 'global' roll. That way we can individually block out clippers and subject matters, not to mention spam clippers, that we have no interest in. That way everyone can streamline Clipmarks to suit their own needs without having to split it into categories and at the same time still have access to all the new-comers. Then the "my clippers" facility could be dispensed with. That's my two cents worth.

I think it's a great thing that we occasionally share our thoughts (and/or discuss) on how things go at Clipmarks. This alone, shows how respectful and civilized the CM users are - and how much do we care about this site/community. Regardless of the diversity of the opinions on the comments on this clip, this picture looks very healthy to me (and reminds me once again why I love Clipmarks.)

As I stated in my comment on the CM blog, I have never had a single doubt about the improvements, changes and regulations that CM team believed and considered necessary - and almost all of them proved to be for the sake of the quality of the site. (Just check the history, it tells everything.)

Though at...

I think it's a great thing that we occasionally share our thoughts (and/or discuss) on how things go at Clipmarks. This alone, shows how respectful and civilized the CM users are - and how much do we care about this site/community. Regardless of the diversity of the opinions on the comments on this clip, this picture looks very healthy to me (and reminds me once again why I love Clipmarks.)

As I stated in my comment on the CM blog, I have never had a single doubt about the improvements, changes and regulations that CM team believed and considered necessary - and almost all of them proved to be for the sake of the quality of the site. (Just check the history, it tells everything.)

Though at some points I agree with some fellow clippers (like Arif, Debbyski...) I repeat I am very confident about the changes to come.

Clipmarks has been my home sweet home on the Net, since november 2005. And I strongly believe it'll always be.

I have to say, I'm adamantly opposed to the idea of limiting a persons comments. There is already a time limit on how fast you can post comments, which I think is just fine, because it is just long enough to give a well thought out response.

On the other hand, I don't think I would see the point in using clipmarks if commenting were restricted. I use google notebooks to keep track of my personal, private notes. I use clipmarks specifically for the community. I want people to give me more than 5 comments in 24 hours. I am tickled pink if a clip of mine goes past 30 or 40 comments. Although not everyone may read them all, I do.

I think it is very important that people have a chance to fully...

I have to say, I'm adamantly opposed to the idea of limiting a persons comments. There is already a time limit on how fast you can post comments, which I think is just fine, because it is just long enough to give a well thought out response.

On the other hand, I don't think I would see the point in using clipmarks if commenting were restricted. I use google notebooks to keep track of my personal, private notes. I use clipmarks specifically for the community. I want people to give me more than 5 comments in 24 hours. I am tickled pink if a clip of mine goes past 30 or 40 comments. Although not everyone may read them all, I do.

I think it is very important that people have a chance to fully explain themselves. On a clip of my own, myself and often one or two other clippers can easily post 15 or 20 comments in a period of hours over the course of a vigorous yet civil debate, and they provide excellent background, as well as thoroughly developed ideas.

Furthermore, for civilized debate, Clipmarks is the best forum around because a debate conducted through comments allows us to incorporate evidence through hyper-text links, and also to refer back in specific detail to previously stated positions.

If I can't get that sort of constructive input, I don't see the point in using it, because honestly I'm bored to death when I clip some picture of a funny crystal and just get a bunch of comments like "wow" or "beautiful."

The problem isn't the politics, and it isn't the comments. The problem is that some people say hurtful things without thinking first, or try to use clipmarks to attack other people and inflate their own ego. This is bad, but there are always people like this in the world. I have to put up with them at work, or at the bar, so I can probably put up with them here too.

But how can we make it better?

1. Give us tools for SELF-CENSORSHIP. Most clippers are decent people, and if they say something stupid, would be willing to go back and retract it. Let us ed

Let us edit our comments, delete them altogether, or shut down comments on one of our own clips that has gotten out of control.

This addresses another concern of mine, only marginally related to the main topic here. I have nerve damage to my left hand that makes me prone to typos. Many times I have clicked "Add Comment" only to see some really stupid mistake irrevocably out there for the world to see. Once it happened in the title line for one of my clips. If the error is something that is really out there or makes my comment difficult to understand, I then find it necessary to post a follow up comment with corrections. Some blogs give commenters a countdown showing the nu...

Let us edit our comments, delete them altogether, or shut down comments on one of our own clips that has gotten out of control.

This addresses another concern of mine, only marginally related to the main topic here. I have nerve damage to my left hand that makes me prone to typos. Many times I have clicked "Add Comment" only to see some really stupid mistake irrevocably out there for the world to see. Once it happened in the title line for one of my clips. If the error is something that is really out there or makes my comment difficult to understand, I then find it necessary to post a follow up comment with corrections. Some blogs give commenters a countdown showing the number of seconds they have to re-edit or cancel their posting. Would that be too hard to do?

I still miss the ability to block someone's clips completely. I really enjoyed the site much more then.

Some things I would like to see:

If you have someone's comments hidden you still receive e-mails with that person's comments if you are monitoring comments on that clip. How about no e-mail or just one saying they commented?

Is there a way to see who you have blocked? If so, I have missed it, if not, could it be added?

How about when you block someone from commenting on your clips, it also blocks them from popping your clips? It would be a little give and take that might make you not quite so eager to block them.

Could add a feature to make a clip or all your clips blocked from all co...

I still miss the ability to block someone's clips completely. I really enjoyed the site much more then.

Some things I would like to see:

If you have someone's comments hidden you still receive e-mails with that person's comments if you are monitoring comments on that clip. How about no e-mail or just one saying they commented?

Is there a way to see who you have blocked? If so, I have missed it, if not, could it be added?

How about when you block someone from commenting on your clips, it also blocks them from popping your clips? It would be a little give and take that might make you not quite so eager to block them.

Could add a feature to make a clip or all your clips blocked from all comments. Not sure why you would want to do that, but some might.

And I just wanted to put in my agreement for an edit window. Maybe you could be allowed to edit your comment for up to five minutes so you could withdraw something said in the heat of the moment, or correct errors you made.

The internet is giving us the chance to unite both intellectually and emotionally. Politicians say they are in charge, but that is only an illusion. Politics is to divide up, when the Truth is Most people want peace, but were once afraid they were on their own. Now minds are coming together, before some of the cues for prejudice have had the chance to interrupt. We can stay divided Just by believing that that is the way it can be. Or we can prove we can unite, as we begin to see each other as we see ourselves. A.I.? No The internet is an organism, and we are the Neurons. Between us we are learning what we have to lose. Clipmarks is one of the seeds. as we learn that the meaning of life is li...

The internet is giving us the chance to unite both intellectually and emotionally. Politicians say they are in charge, but that is only an illusion. Politics is to divide up, when the Truth is Most people want peace, but were once afraid they were on their own. Now minds are coming together, before some of the cues for prejudice have had the chance to interrupt. We can stay divided Just by believing that that is the way it can be. Or we can prove we can unite, as we begin to see each other as we see ourselves. A.I.? No The internet is an organism, and we are the Neurons. Between us we are learning what we have to lose. Clipmarks is one of the seeds. as we learn that the meaning of life is life, and those who are already dead willsoon hardly be a memory. Empires come and go, but Life goes on. We have freedom to have an opinion. and an opinion is something that sometimes will not change. but if it's wrong it will not be remembered., if it is right censorship is just a buzz word. The value of giving someone the right to their own opinion is so we can know that sometimes we can argue a wrong cause.When people have made up their I don't mind giving them the last word. I know I've been, and will be wrong. That is why I value learning. One of the hardest things about communication, despite rumours to the contrary, is showing people what you mean. The net is allowing us to do that in a profound way. If only you could see what I have seen....Come I'll show you.'

I didn't read all the comments - just scanned them.
I wanted to comment on the topic of EG's clip.
I've seen many changes at clipmarks and some were better some were worse but in the end it all seems to work out for the better (Tho Cliplimits suck, LOL)

Since I am not overly political or religious I only follow those clips with idle curiousity. I can see where peoples passions on the subjects come into play.

I believe that the pop button lends itself to helping to create some of the competitive nature of the more touchy clip subjects because people are clipping and commenting to attempt to gain pops. People will pop a clip as a reward and when a system is based on a reward it tends to sway...

I didn't read all the comments - just scanned them.
I wanted to comment on the topic of EG's clip.
I've seen many changes at clipmarks and some were better some were worse but in the end it all seems to work out for the better (Tho Cliplimits suck, LOL)

Since I am not overly political or religious I only follow those clips with idle curiousity. I can see where peoples passions on the subjects come into play.

I believe that the pop button lends itself to helping to create some of the competitive nature of the more touchy clip subjects because people are clipping and commenting to attempt to gain pops. People will pop a clip as a reward and when a system is based on a reward it tends to sway its own results . By witholding or granting a pop one member holds power over another. As pops go up it breeds jealousy and contempt. I understand why the popular button came to be but this is not Digg and popping takes away the natural order of the clips.
Flood control. Flood control also takes away from the natural order of the clips. I see the reason for it -I get carried away myself. But when a restriction is imposed upon a natural process those restrictions often change the spontenaity of the process.
Agendas- No doubtedly there are people that use clipmarks to drive home things that they want the community to think about. Politically driven agendas are common right now as people try to solidify their beliefs. They use it as a tool for advertising their candidate or dissuading the other candidate.
This is inevitable in this type of forum.
My focus is varried. I try to change the subject of my clipping to encompass many different and open things so the focus of clipmarks is about finding the new and different. Clipmarks, to me, is about finding something new and different. If I clipped just the headlines or current events I would get a lot of pops because its what everyone sees. I don't get a lot of pops because my clips are strange, new and outside the normal headlines.

I suggest the clipfathers tread lightly on changing clipmarks nature. Its too bad there isn't auto tag technology that automatically tags a clip based upon its subject. If that were possible you could add clip markers to the page that would allow you to focus the display with the tags as the sorting factor. This would allow those passionate members to stay focused on their passion but would allow others to discover new and different.
Right now, you can do this but it entails entering a tag into the search bar and requires everyone to tag their clips using standard tags.
I like foldering clips but it is member isolated. A foldering system for the public que would help but I have no idea how ...

I suggest the clipfathers tread lightly on changing clipmarks nature. Its too bad there isn't auto tag technology that automatically tags a clip based upon its subject. If that were possible you could add clip markers to the page that would allow you to focus the display with the tags as the sorting factor. This would allow those passionate members to stay focused on their passion but would allow others to discover new and different.
Right now, you can do this but it entails entering a tag into the search bar and requires everyone to tag their clips using standard tags.
I like foldering clips but it is member isolated. A foldering system for the public que would help but I have no idea how it could be set up. - perhaps a set of standard filters to auto folder a clip in the edit window?
I really don't think it would be a good idea to mess with the comment streams of individual clips. The comment streams are what makes clipmarks personal and enlightening.
I will continue to clip the off-popular stuff I find that interests me. I can't count how many times other members comment that my clips are a refreshing change. I don't get cught up in the discussions of topics I am not interested in. Sometimes I read comments and think - man, why is everyone so tenatious.
Clipmarks is about me clipping what I find interesting on the WWW. I make them public because I like show & Tell. My clipping tastes are different from everyone else. The fact that I can clip what I find interesting and you can clip what you find interesting is what gives clipmarks its appeal. You find stuff I like and I find stuff you like. If you change it to a controlled, restricted subject oriented forum it will hurt clipmarks. I don't want you to clip only what I like - show me something different.
Perhaps that would be a great tagline
Show me something different

I share the faith most have in our ClipFathers ®.


I see this problem mainly as a temporary one, due to the present political situation in the USA.
I never really read the (US) political clips, nor the comments; but I take it the discussion gets quite heated now.

Anyways, here are a few thoughts:

What about a user-driven moderating system: not just 'popping' or rating comments, but marking them as:
• spam,
• helpful / not helpful
• neutral / interesting / must-read
• funny, informative
• flame/troll,

You could grant those powers to all or just a select group, for example: clippers active over 6 months. Abusing the system gets you kicked or banned.

It might also help to introduce ...

I share the faith most have in our ClipFathers ®.


I see this problem mainly as a temporary one, due to the present political situation in the USA.
I never really read the (US) political clips, nor the comments; but I take it the discussion gets quite heated now.

Anyways, here are a few thoughts:

What about a user-driven moderating system: not just 'popping' or rating comments, but marking them as:
• spam,
• helpful / not helpful
• neutral / interesting / must-read
• funny, informative
• flame/troll,

You could grant those powers to all or just a select group, for example: clippers active over 6 months. Abusing the system gets you kicked or banned.

It might also help to introduce threaded commenting. That way someone reading the comments can click away the whole thread if he's not interested in that specific topic. And the user-driven 'rating' system could automagically hide (or just collapse) the threads that have a negative rating. And maybe a feature to only show the very positive comments.

In my opinion any limits would be a bad idea: time limits or character limits.

The self-censoring proposal should also be useful for a more structured debate. But it's mainly about maintaining a civil debate and the responsibility for that lies in each one of us.

Lets not forget that clipmarks is essentially a personal website and not a govt controlled site. There is no freedom of speech rights unless it is granted by the site owners. We don't automatically have rights. Those rights are granted to us by the creators/clipfathers. If so desired they can restrict or ban anyone not in their line of thinking.
Its also a free site. You did not pay money for the right to express your views. It is granted but it is not guaranteed.
People often comment that the have the right to their opinion but not on here or any other place on the internet except us govt sites and places where you paid for the right. If someone abuses the rights that are granted they can a...

Lets not forget that clipmarks is essentially a personal website and not a govt controlled site. There is no freedom of speech rights unless it is granted by the site owners. We don't automatically have rights. Those rights are granted to us by the creators/clipfathers. If so desired they can restrict or ban anyone not in their line of thinking.
Its also a free site. You did not pay money for the right to express your views. It is granted but it is not guaranteed.
People often comment that the have the right to their opinion but not on here or any other place on the internet except us govt sites and places where you paid for the right. If someone abuses the rights that are granted they can and should be taken away. You have no recourse in the matter because the site is privately owned. In most basic terms - Mind what you say but don't expect all out rights to say what you wish.
These clipfathers are very real people with very real and practical intelligence. They are honest and endearing. Like any person they screw up from time to time. When the realize it they fix it and make amends.
They dont have to tho.
I think the best change they could make is to enable folder sorting in the public que. Like on your own clipcast you have a pulldown that is titled folders. If clips were presorted or auto sorted into folders you could sort the clipcast by subjects you want to view.
ie: Politics, animals, art, music, etc...
You can do it now with the search feature but there is no standard or auto foldering method in place. I don't even know if it would be practical. Perhaps on the clip editing page a pull-down could be installed that is mandatory to post each clip. Clips could be assigned a category from this pull-down and then you could view clips per category. I would try to keep the choices few (10 or under) so there wouldn't be confusion.
Here are some suggestions
ART
Entertainment
Knowledge
Politics
Religion
News Articles
Software
Family
Work
Self-Help
Funny
Weird
Technolog

sparlingphoto, your comment represents the type of comment that really
isn't needed. i'm not speaking about anything other than this specific
instance, in which ratilfar made a general observation about what would
help the site (without naming anyone specifically) and then you added a
comment that offers nothing of value other than to personally call out
ratilfar. That is how decent commentary slides into personal attacks
amongst users.

Someone has to say it. I've seen many of the minority view around here have to put up with a lot of abuse. Do we just dance around the issue and play nice when daddy's in the room?
Kudos for speaking up, sparling, though in the name of fairne...

sparlingphoto, your comment represents the type of comment that really
isn't needed. i'm not speaking about anything other than this specific
instance, in which ratilfar made a general observation about what would
help the site (without naming anyone specifically) and then you added a
comment that offers nothing of value other than to personally call out
ratilfar. That is how decent commentary slides into personal attacks
amongst users.

Someone has to say it. I've seen many of the minority view around here have to put up with a lot of abuse. Do we just dance around the issue and play nice when daddy's in the room?
Kudos for speaking up, sparling, though in the name of fairness, there have been far worse than the indvdl. mentioned.

Perhaps self control is not a commodity and there are people that must express themselves harshly. No comment ever caused me harm. The only time someones comment could cause harm is if the reader is extremely sensitive and wears paper thin emotions.
I have seen people be called out on their comments and the cannot respond because they didn't even realize what they wrote.
The answer is not to ban comments, limit them or censor them. The answer is to expect adult discussions and disregard everything else. Don't get upset when someone calls out a remark you wrote...clarify it for them. Look at what you have written and see if it is agressive in nature. IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) fixes a grea...

Perhaps self control is not a commodity and there are people that must express themselves harshly. No comment ever caused me harm. The only time someones comment could cause harm is if the reader is extremely sensitive and wears paper thin emotions.
I have seen people be called out on their comments and the cannot respond because they didn't even realize what they wrote.
The answer is not to ban comments, limit them or censor them. The answer is to expect adult discussions and disregard everything else. Don't get upset when someone calls out a remark you wrote...clarify it for them. Look at what you have written and see if it is agressive in nature. IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) fixes a great many misunderstandings. Be grown up enough to agree to disagree. Be understanding enough to realize some people don't express themselves as well as you do.
My daddy told me to never argue politics or religion - I think it was sound advice and still is.
If you find yoursel typing to pick a fight, put someone straight, get them back or roust feathers you are probably better off just changing to another clip instead of clicking that post button. Even if it appears your nemisis is winning. Sometimes no comment says more than anything you would type in anger.
On clipping subjects - perhaps if you clipped a few controversial clips it would be refreshing to clip a recipe or a funny picture instead of more controversy. Sometimes you have to let the sores cool down so they don't get infected

Yeah, actually, it seems like the clippers who heap the most aggressive and juvenile abuse on others are also the quickest to cry foul and say they are being persecuted.

I am a passionate clipper, and I like passionate clippers, so I'll role with the punches when I get burned every now and then as long as we are all playing by the same rules.

I am weary of people who set up a double standard about what they can say to other people, and what other people can say to them.

This, however, is not a problem that clipmarks can change directly or with force. That would just agrivate things.

But I think clipmarks already has inderectly changed people. It provides a forum that emphasizes research ...

Yeah, actually, it seems like the clippers who heap the most aggressive and juvenile abuse on others are also the quickest to cry foul and say they are being persecuted.

I am a passionate clipper, and I like passionate clippers, so I'll role with the punches when I get burned every now and then as long as we are all playing by the same rules.

I am weary of people who set up a double standard about what they can say to other people, and what other people can say to them.

This, however, is not a problem that clipmarks can change directly or with force. That would just agrivate things.

But I think clipmarks already has inderectly changed people. It provides a forum that emphasizes research and the collection of evidence, and interaction between opposing viewpoints. This example will slowly draw people into more civil discourse. If you doubt it, just check anywhere else on the net. Even the comments made by davboz or sparlingphoto that others have criticized here seem extremely tame and reasonable compared to what is said on most internet discussion boards.

Just because it is a slow process, don't presume that we aren't moving forward!

Also, I would like some auto-tags because I want to be able to manage more clippers that I follow. Right now, I have dramatically reduced the number of guides I use because the current software gets overwhelmed by the volume. Thus a lot of clips fall through the cracks if you are following more than about 50 people.

I want to be able to break it down so that I can follow certain kinds of clips from certain kinds of clippers - especially when the clipper happens to have a particular area of passion or expertise.

For instance, myself: my expertise is Islamic terrorism and religious politics. When I clip something on that, I know what I'm talking about, so it would be worthwhile for someone t...

Also, I would like some auto-tags because I want to be able to manage more clippers that I follow. Right now, I have dramatically reduced the number of guides I use because the current software gets overwhelmed by the volume. Thus a lot of clips fall through the cracks if you are following more than about 50 people.

I want to be able to break it down so that I can follow certain kinds of clips from certain kinds of clippers - especially when the clipper happens to have a particular area of passion or expertise.

For instance, myself: my expertise is Islamic terrorism and religious politics. When I clip something on that, I know what I'm talking about, so it would be worthwhile for someone to check that out. That's the contribution I can make to the community. When I clip something on, lets say, giant crystals, I contribute nothing more than a little levity, and remind myself of a website I might want to refernece sometime later. While my area of expertise is unique, my levity clips are pretty generic.

Anyone can see pictures of giant crystals on the main clip role. You don't need to follow me to find "amazing photos" etc. but I am part of a group of religious scholars on clipmarks, and it would be cool if we could identify those trends and strengths.
I normally follow a clipper for a specific reason, and don't want to miss the clips I'm looking for in between all the run-of-the-mill clips.

We really do have a lot of experts in the clipmarks community, and it would be great if it were easier to find them by autotaging content and giving us filters to organize that. Or we could let people self-identify, the way directors and experts do on youtube.

Generally, I think we need a sort of standardized vocabulary that we can use to organize our clip content, so that clippers of common interests can find each other more easily.

But see, michellezm, that would also work in your favor because you would be able to find my one giant crystal clip more easily without having to wade through my hundreds of clips on economics, theology, civil liberties and terrorism.

That's not saying we block things out, but for instance, a filter that sorts by priority of things I like first. Thus, if you are, say Michellezm and are more interested in my "natural wonder" clips, then it would be cool if you could filter the list so that the type of clips you are interested in appear first, while the others slide to the bottom for you to check out if you feel like it.

This would solve the problem that I have because, due to work and field...

But see, michellezm, that would also work in your favor because you would be able to find my one giant crystal clip more easily without having to wade through my hundreds of clips on economics, theology, civil liberties and terrorism.

That's not saying we block things out, but for instance, a filter that sorts by priority of things I like first. Thus, if you are, say Michellezm and are more interested in my "natural wonder" clips, then it would be cool if you could filter the list so that the type of clips you are interested in appear first, while the others slide to the bottom for you to check out if you feel like it.

This would solve the problem that I have because, due to work and field research, I clip in bursts - no activity for a while, then a bunch of clips at once. I discovered that if I clip five or six clips within say, a couple of hours, people generally only look at the last couple I clip, and the first few fall through the cracks, even if they are better or more appealing content.

cptenaud. I write everything out long hand in illegible cursive, then type it up. It's not the most efficient system... I'll admit which I probably why I have trouble with the character limit.

Skwirlinator said-

The answer is not to ban comments, limit them or censor them. The
answer is to expect adult discussions and disregard everything else.
Don't get upset when someone calls out a remark you wrote...clarify it
for them.

Very wise words skwirl. If someone doesn't really respond to your point with a valid argument but instead launches a personal attack and you take the high road and don't respond in kind you make yourself look good. And most observers will see a personal attack for what it is, a pathetic assault from someone unwilling or incapable of making a valid argument.If people wish to use personal attacks or act like a juvenile don't ban or restrict them. ...

Skwirlinator said-

The answer is not to ban comments, limit them or censor them. The
answer is to expect adult discussions and disregard everything else.
Don't get upset when someone calls out a remark you wrote...clarify it
for them.

Very wise words skwirl. If someone doesn't really respond to your point with a valid argument but instead launches a personal attack and you take the high road and don't respond in kind you make yourself look good. And most observers will see a personal attack for what it is, a pathetic assault from someone unwilling or incapable of making a valid argument.If people wish to use personal attacks or act like a juvenile don't ban or restrict them. Let them reveal their true selves with their own methods and words. We all can choose to avoid those whom we find offensive on a personal level by not reading their comments or posts. I think many people here do express themselves well and can get their point across.

In terms of suggestions for the categories, Clipmarks has already tried that in the past and have upgraded out of it (sort of). I tend to think categories are old-fashioned and they are mostly under used when implemented.

The My Guides (or my clippers) is the best feature of this site for those who've been here for long. I think it is not as effective for those who newly join hence there may be a struggle for the site owners on how to make the new visitor experience more seamless and substantive.

Those who follow My Guides, Popular and Pop pages from the main site can also attest that they usually do not see the trouble brewing among any parties through the comments (someone also mention...

In terms of suggestions for the categories, Clipmarks has already tried that in the past and have upgraded out of it (sort of). I tend to think categories are old-fashioned and they are mostly under used when implemented.

The My Guides (or my clippers) is the best feature of this site for those who've been here for long. I think it is not as effective for those who newly join hence there may be a struggle for the site owners on how to make the new visitor experience more seamless and substantive.

Those who follow My Guides, Popular and Pop pages from the main site can also attest that they usually do not see the trouble brewing among any parties through the comments (someone also mentions above that they did not notice anything. I myself generally does not notice any commenting trouble unless I follow the Comments page and/or accidentally hit upon few of my politically leaning guides). This is just a genius of how this site is designed, it reflects the physical reality.

My problem with my guides is that there are many people on clipmarks that I like (100+) and these people produce many interesting clips, while producing even more clips that are useful and relevant to someone, but not to me. This results in two problems...

1. I never see most of the clippers I follow on my guides clip-roll because I realistically only make it through the most recent 30 or 40 clips. For instace, arifsali, I follow your clips, but I haven't seen one on my guides clip roll for months. Thus I have had to abandon the guides clip roll and simply go to each person's cliproll to see what they are clipping.

2. Some clippers that I like clip a LOT. For the 1,000 plus crowd, that's a...

My problem with my guides is that there are many people on clipmarks that I like (100+) and these people produce many interesting clips, while producing even more clips that are useful and relevant to someone, but not to me. This results in two problems...

1. I never see most of the clippers I follow on my guides clip-roll because I realistically only make it through the most recent 30 or 40 clips. For instace, arifsali, I follow your clips, but I haven't seen one on my guides clip roll for months. Thus I have had to abandon the guides clip roll and simply go to each person's cliproll to see what they are clipping.

2. Some clippers that I like clip a LOT. For the 1,000 plus crowd, that's a little too much for me to keep up with, especially when I follow them for a specific reason, like expertise. Invariably they ask me "oh did you see my clip on x?" and I have to say "no, how on earth could I find a specific clip of yours?" I want something to make it easier for me to find those clips.

3. Clips fall through the cracks. Even I, myself a modest clipper compared to some, have encountered this problem in that if I clip three or four clips at a time, the first few tend to drop off the face of the earth.

Granted, searching clipmarks for certain key words will turn up some results, but there is no standardized vocabulary. I don't support sorting or segregating clipmarks, but developing a recommended standard lexicon for tagging might make it easier for us to find the clips we want faster.

I also would like a way to set priorities for tags so that clips tagged with words I like show up first, and ones with tags I don't slide to the bottom. I realize that could be a little complicated to implement - adding a whole other dimension to the following and sorting.

@I Google Myself @ reimers I am new too and like new subjects I wouldn't normally come across and it is a relief to meet other clippers from around the world who know that USA thinks the world revolves around it.Their subjective world view is not the only one here given their recent contribution to civilization so they should wise up, stop meddling and hear from more enlightened international contributions. I thought clipmarks was an a-political simple an add-on from FireFox.Not that egoldsteins has in any way suppressed commentary and if Napster ruffles a few feathers with his manners Send your lawyer no big deal the world knows what wankers the litigous yanks are.But to impose a form of ...

@I Google Myself @ reimers I am new too and like new subjects I wouldn't normally come across and it is a relief to meet other clippers from around the world who know that USA thinks the world revolves around it.Their subjective world view is not the only one here given their recent contribution to civilization so they should wise up, stop meddling and hear from more enlightened international contributions. I thought clipmarks was an a-political simple an add-on from FireFox.Not that egoldsteins has in any way suppressed commentary and if Napster ruffles a few feathers with his manners Send your lawyer no big deal the world knows what wankers the litigous yanks are.But to impose a form of censorship or hinder free speech then THE LAND OF THE BRAVE should not be afraid of free speech as Voltaire advocated: in earlier ground rules for democracy.I also agree with one thing Napster said that it is cowardly to talk about people without them having right of reply.I do not think you should have a hundred little boxes of different subjects from" right to lifers" to "woman's rights" for control over her body because same people can have a different view with China's forced abortion in Muslim and Tibetan areas, just think does it come under politics , morals religion, rednecks,Fundamentalist christian dogma,rational behaviour,rape,, which little tin GOD will limit the diversity that is life to his/her subjective view.Hands off, not go away some where else just because of being born in USA at right time in History to control media unjustly to rest of the world will make YANKS culturally shallow and more hated than they already are by the majority of world.At least here some of the best beautiful minds can share this platform with the like minded opening up others minds along the way.Jan 20/09 US politics wont be always in our face heres hoping.