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3-31-2006 2:25 PM550 views
invictus says:
They decided to go ahead with this law. We'll see the consequences.
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3-31-2006 2:39 PM
BigBadWolf
Uh oh... something tells me this isn't going to go over well.
3-31-2006 4:27 PM
rmowery
I think we will see something as bad or worse when the immigration bill is signed.
3-31-2006 4:37 PM
invictus
Very dark pictures: Two countries, both of them has roots in the late 18th century's "liberty, equality and democracy" ideals, and both of them experiencing hard times nowadays with unrest. 2006 seems to be a very interesting year. According to Ancient Chinese cosmology, it's the "Year of the Fire Dog" and "Fire Dog" symbolizes radical changes, turmoils and revolutions.
3-31-2006 4:50 PM
Guillaume
Hm. Chinese superstitions aside, this could be just because the roots of Enlightenment are once again shaken by neo-capitalism.

Indeed Chirac did say that 2 hours ago, you were pretty fast Invictus
It wasn't a big surprise though. Here is a bit of background.

The French government conservatist right-wing party (UMP) originally founded by Chirac is currently cut in two separate antagonist sides. Villepin, the prime minister, is the "official" heir of Chirac, of whom he is a "protégé", and a long follower. Sarkozy, the outsider, has exactly (more or less) the same economic and politic program as Villepin, but he succeeded in taking over the presidential party, the UMP. So he's president o...
3-31-2006 5:02 PM
invictus
Thanks Guillaume, for the valuable info. How about the left-wing (socialist or social democratic) opposition? Do you see any chance for them at 2007 elections? Do they have enough public support? (By the way, I saw anarchist black flags on CNN footage of protests. Is there a libertarian party growing in France in recent years?)
3-31-2006 5:21 PM
Guillaume
Good points Invictus
I was speaking only of the struggle inside the government party, but they are far from the overall representation As you may know, we have a huge number of parties in France, with maybe 15 or 20 candidates from differente parties (or branches of the same parties) at the presidential elections.

The overall UMP is in fact quit low in the polls these days, due to this recent law of course, but not only. It has been the case for a long time, due to a number of other criticised laws and corruption stories involving Chirac himself, and opposition won most of the recent local elections, by far.

The left-wing "main" opposition is the socialist party. Their current probl...
3-31-2006 5:32 PM
Guillaume
To the extreme-right, I won't speak a lot about the infamous Front National of Jean-Marie Le Pen, notorious in the world for its racism and anti-semitism, naming the Holocaust a "detail" of the second world war for instance. Economically and morally, they are close to the right wing of the US Republican party.

To the left of the Socialists, here again, lots of "small" parties.
First the Communist party, still alive and kicking, though greatly diminished if we compare them as what they were in the 50s or the 60s. They are still (often, ut not always) a stong ally of the Socialists though.

To the left of them, we have 2 Trotskyst parties: Lutte Ouvrière ("Laborer Fight" or something) and LCR...
3-31-2006 5:35 PM
Guillaume
Chirac was the current president. He wasn't very high in the polls, and it was roughly fifty-fifty with Lionel Jospin, the prime minister and leader of the Socialist party at the time. Everyone felt like the second turn of the election would oppose Chirac and Jospin. But the big number of left-wing parties produced a side-effect of "scattering" of votes. Jospin was not even in the second turn (while the total number of left-wing votes was greater than the total number of right-wing ones), which opposed Chirac and Jean-Marie Le Pen (whose followers don't scatter, them...) Of course, Chirac was thus reelected triumphally with more than 80% of votes (socialists calling to vote for him against L...
3-31-2006 5:35 PM
Guillaume
Wow that was long. Happy reading
3-31-2006 5:42 PM
invictus
Whew, thanks a lot Guillaume, great summary and very valuable info indeed. It seems in 2007 there will be "hot days" in France.

They don't have a large number of followers, but still, they make between 5 and 10 percent in all elections.
If a Trotskyst Party could get 5 percent of the votes in Turkey, I would consider it a "miracle" and celebrate this progress by banging champagnes for days (or may be an omen of the apocalypse and hide myself away) I think this is really very important. France (naturally) has its own traditional solid base coming from the revolutionary history.
3-31-2006 5:56 PM
Guillaume
Results of the presidential elections of 2002:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_France#Latest_election

(presidential elections are usually considered the most "representative" of real political tendencies in France, because they are the most covered by media, the most "sexy" and kind of the symbol of our presidential regime - I could discuss for hours about how this is bad )
3-31-2006 6:11 PM
Guillaume
f a Trotskyst Party could get 5 percent of the votes in Turkey, I would consider it a "miracle" and celebrate this progress by banging champagnes for days
Actually of you count the votes for Trotskyst parties in the 2002 election, it was 5.72 + 4.25 = 9.97%

If you make the total "right" against "left", this gives you:
Right (including extreme-right): 57.13%
Right (without extreme-right): 37.93%
Left: 42.87%

And yet Chirac was elected, against extreme-right in the second turn.
Democracy ?
4-1-2006 9:43 AM
invictus
Wow, almost 10 percent for Trotskyst parties? This is really interesting. Also, the apparently balanced distribution of 57 and 43 percent between left and right is really something. The only disturbing thing here is:
Right (including extreme-right): 57.13%
Right (without extreme-right): 37.93%
So, 20 percent for extreme right? This is disturbing.

Thanks again for the valuable info Guillaume. I think I'll bother you nowadays often with my neverending questions
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