 invictus says: Israel is now engaged in the exact same catastrophic blunder, from its own point of view, as George Bush's invasion of Iraq. Bush thought that a show of military strength would establish U.S. presence unquestionably in Iraq and intimidate the rest of the world. Bush has discovered that Iraqi resistance was far more formidable militarily than anticipated, that American political allies in Iraq were far less reliable than he assumed they would be, and that the U.S. public's support of the war was far more fragile than he expected. Israel's current military campaign is a direct parallel of Bush's invasion of Iraq. The Israeli generals are already noting that Hezbollah's military is far more formidable than anticipated, that U.S. allies in the region are already taking wide distance from the United States and Israel (note the Iraqi government's support of Lebanon and now that of the Saudi government), and soon will discover that the Israeli public's support is more f If for once they put themselves ahead of the opinions of their haters and detractors, they can achieve success. It wont be pretty, but cancer treatment isn't either. This is not a treatment Willhelm, this is eutenasia. Israel is preparing its own end. Your comment Invictus is the reason Israel will not stop, cannot stop, and should not stop. In fact, it shows more than ever, it is time for all cards to be played by Israel. Israel could end this tomorrow if they really wanted to, but I don't think the Israel-haters would like to see that and I don't think the world is ready for Israel to respond appropriately. Only a commitment by the US in troops, weapons, and intelligence support will cause the region to take a step back. Unfortunately, In America we have this thing called politics which makes cowards out of all our leaders. But when push comes to shove 60 percent would firmly support Israel by whatever means. I think it is a mistake to say that Israel is in any kind of existential danger (that is, I think it is mistaken to say that Israel's existence is threatened). Clearly, it has superior firepower to Iran, Hezbollah, the Palestinians, Syria, etc. and in terms of those countries invading Israel, I have no doubt that Israel could defend itself. It faces lesser threats but I just do not see its enemies being able to snuff it out. This is not the world of 1960's, where the winds of the cold war created some sensitive balances between world powers and the steps were carefully made by everyone. As Willhelm said, this is a time when everybody feels ready to play al the cards they have. To compare today's economic, technologic and warfare conditions to that of the "Six Days War" would be a critical mistake. Even the circumstances in the Islamic world has radically changed and now every state, every ethnic group or every religious sect knows very well that this is a newly beginned war of "to be or not to be" in the region. As it is clearly seen, the world's most powerful military is in really big trouble in Iraq and the hi... I hope everyone is aware of the fact that we are heading towards a wide-spread bloody war and the consequences will be really harsh for every single country in the worldI've been tootin' this horn for months. I am tired of cold war analogies. They do not follow. The Cold War was based on mutually assured destruction. This enemy wants to die. If Iran has nukes they will use them without flinching.Invictus, I am well aware of the implications of this issue. My exchanges here in Clipmarks leads me to believe most are not. We have already passed the event horizon or critical mass, if you will. We aren't "heading toward", we are firmly into it. It is 1938 all over again, not ever... We have already passed the event horizon or critical mass, if you will. We aren't "heading toward", we are firmly into it. It is 1938 all over again, not everyone recognizes the threat.I'm afraid you're right Willhelm. But there's one difference than 1938: This time, it's not just that "crazy Nazis". We have many "parties" here that deadly want this irrational war. It's not that different - then you had 'crazy nazis', now you have 'crazy muslims'. There are more people, spanning multiple countries, but it's a group people. Besides, it wasn't just Germany, it was also Italy and Japan. No question that it's a WW3 scenario, it's NOT like the cold war at all and everyone on the normal scale would agree that it sucks. But, as always it seems, we don't have everyone on the normal scale... so somebody will have to win and somebody will have to lose. It appears that the era of signing peace agreements that aren't worth anything is over. Invictus, I do not dispute that the Israeli military is in trouble in Lebanon, I just do not see this threatning the existence of the Israeli state and definitely not the existence of the Israeli people (although definitely there is a threat, given that nearly 100 Israelis have died, but the threat is not an existential one). If Hezbollah can do this much damage to the IDF, think about the damage the IDF could do to Hezbollah or Syria or Iran if they tried to invade Israel. Sure their military leaders are aware of this. Josh, I wasn't talking about Israel being invaded by foreign troops. In fact I didn't mean "Israel, as a land". The "eutenasia" I mentioned in my comment was just a prediction about the core element of superstructure; namely the Israeli "state" and government. A long-lasting, bloody war with Syria and especially Iran, would definitely shake the economic stability of Israel in the mid or long term and with all the "enemies" around them having had much guerilla warfare experience and well-trained organizations in the last 20 years, Israel would very likely face serious losses during this exhaustive war. The industry, commerce, services will be in a crisis; the land will live in a continuous "w... Invictus, Your list of catastophe is quite good. It seems however, it is slanted against sthe US. You are assigning blame where it does not belong. This is a religious war. The fact of this conflict rests on the instigations of Iran. They are not only fighting a proxy war against Israel, news is now they have troops on the ground. The future scenario is Iran screwing up Saudi Oil facilities with their terrorist proxies, mining the straights of Hormuz ( in effect a blockade), Iran's buddy Hugo Chavez in the mix by cutting off some of the world oil supply. Terrorist attacks on Iraqi oil. While all this is going on the attacks on Israel will increase. Terrorism will gain ground and most attacks... OK, Invictus, I guess I can see your scenario as being plausible. I just did not read your meaning of "euthanasia" correctly. There's another sceanario that's plausible... and that would include some 'forbidden' weapons. If Israel is attacked in a way that invictus described, I don't think Israel will think much about restraint or notifying civillians. Israelis will totally backup a strong, I mean STRONG response, not the toying they're doing now. When your back is to the wall - desperate times call for desperate measures. I think this is a lot more likely scenario than what invictus painted. Hopefully, it won't come to this... but it is possible. |
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