@RS et al: Are you guys serious?

Let's look at it from the other side:

Item 1: Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli soldiers. - This happens in all wars. Only from the other side is in considered kidnapping, or wrong. Israel has been "capturing" Palestinian, Hezbollah, etc soldiers for decades. In retaliation for this, Israel launches air strikes, shelling & a ground war.

Item 2: During Israelis attack on Hezbollah, they dropped leaflets telling the citizens: A: Leave now, we are about to bomb the region. and B: If you are on the road in a car, you will be shot. - Confusing? What would you do? I certainly would not go on foot, I might be mistaken as an enemy combatant (ie: farmer) and shot. ...

@RS et al: Are you guys serious?

Let's look at it from the other side:

Item 1: Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli soldiers. - This happens in all wars. Only from the other side is in considered kidnapping, or wrong. Israel has been "capturing" Palestinian, Hezbollah, etc soldiers for decades. In retaliation for this, Israel launches air strikes, shelling & a ground war.

Item 2: During Israelis attack on Hezbollah, they dropped leaflets telling the citizens: A: Leave now, we are about to bomb the region. and B: If you are on the road in a car, you will be shot. - Confusing? What would you do? I certainly would not go on foot, I might be mistaken as an enemy combatant (ie: farmer) and shot. Then when they bombed the hell out of a compound and realized they killed only citizens, it was the people's fault for not leaving.

Item 3: When the dust cleared, Israel had killed over 80% civilians (according to Lebanese & UN officials), Hezbollah, less than 20% civilians, instead focusing on killing the Israeli insurgents (yes I used that word on purpose..)

Item 4: Hezbollah is offering aid, food, shelter, and to rebuild the homes of their countrymen... what is Israel doing for the Lebanese whose homes they destroyed, lives they took, etc? (I'm talking the civilians)

I know it sounds like I'm backing Hezbollah here, but really, I'm not. I'm just looking at it from the other side and trying to understand the people's point of view, and why they would support a "terrorist" organization. (which in my opinion, they more or less are, but so is Israel if you look at it from the other side).

They are not blind, they have little to no communication infrastructure thanks to the bombings and really only have Hezbollah and word of mouth to go by.

Thy are not into self abuse any more than anyone else who sees their country under attack and feel a sense of patriotism. Some might see the US and others war on terror as enraging the enemy and encouraging attacks...

Great observation from the 'other side'. Now look at it in very simplistic terms - if hezbollah didn't kill those Israeli soldiers and kidnap others on their territory - none of this would've happened. It may sound very simple, but it's true. NONE of it. Proceed forward a bit and now all of this fighting that's going on, if hezbollah would get out of town, literally and not hide their military infrastructure within the civilian population (like weapons stores in hospitals, schools etc.) - nowhere near this number of civilians would've died. This isn't a very difficult concept to grasp for anyone, including the Lebanese.

And that's why I say they're blind, because for whatever reason, a...

Great observation from the 'other side'. Now look at it in very simplistic terms - if hezbollah didn't kill those Israeli soldiers and kidnap others on their territory - none of this would've happened. It may sound very simple, but it's true. NONE of it. Proceed forward a bit and now all of this fighting that's going on, if hezbollah would get out of town, literally and not hide their military infrastructure within the civilian population (like weapons stores in hospitals, schools etc.) - nowhere near this number of civilians would've died. This isn't a very difficult concept to grasp for anyone, including the Lebanese.

And that's why I say they're blind, because for whatever reason, after years of OCCUPATION by Syria and hezbollah - they're still letting them screw up their country. And I said they're into self-abuse because even after this incident - they still don't insist on hezbollah disarming and thus putting an end to these kinds of incidents in the future... ie they're inviting more hurt towards themselves by doing so.

So, yes - I'm definitely serious. And the ones who see the war on terror as 'enraging' and 'encouraging' should take a flight to NYC and talk to some families who were impacted by 9/11... perhaps then they'll get a little more sober about the reality of islamofascism and how stupid it would be to just let it be. That's what bunch of similar people said in 1930's and turned out to be so horribly and painfully mistaken in the end.

This isn't some political discourse... this isn't about whether city parade having more white or red floats... and the sooner you and your side of the equation understands that - the better are the chances of beating the enemy.

brazilnut72 said:

It really is a tragedy that we didn't spend enough time "looking at the other side" before taking Hitler out. Things might be a lot different today.

Apples & Oranges... kind of a sad response really...

Comparing Hezbollah to Hitler is simple at best. The simple fact is, that if we took more time analyzing the symptoms of what is going on, then we might come up with better solutions than the age old way of "Shoot first, shoot again, shoot some more & when everyone is dead, then try and ask a question or two...".

RecordSage said:

if Hezbollah didn't kill those Israeli soldiers and kidnap others on their territory - none of this would've happened

Likew...

brazilnut72 said:

It really is a tragedy that we didn't spend enough time "looking at the other side" before taking Hitler out. Things might be a lot different today.

Apples & Oranges... kind of a sad response really...

Comparing Hezbollah to Hitler is simple at best. The simple fact is, that if we took more time analyzing the symptoms of what is going on, then we might come up with better solutions than the age old way of "Shoot first, shoot again, shoot some more & when everyone is dead, then try and ask a question or two...".

RecordSage said:

if Hezbollah didn't kill those Israeli soldiers and kidnap others on their territory - none of this would've happened

Likewise, if Israel had not invaded Lebanon in the 80's then Hezbollah would not have formed on the early 80's as a response to the occupation.

And before you run to Israel's defense of the invasion, it is speculated by both the international community and Israel themselves that Israel's incursion into Lebanon was more about trying to instill a leadership from the existing Christian population (read: Israel friendly) than preventing attacks from the PLO. (note: Yehoshafat Harkabi, the former chief of Israeli military intelligence notes that there was much deceit from the military & government on the reasons for going to war).

It is interesting to note that everyone seems to condemn Iran for supplying Hezbollah with arms & training, but Israel did the same thing for the "South Lebanon Army" (Lebanese Christians) during the Lebanese Civil War. How is it different? Israel has a long, DARK history with the Lebanese people, they stood by when the same group they helped setup massacred some 700 Arab Lebanese (the IDF was surrounding the area.. they claimed to have no clue what was happening).

invictus, let's call things what they are. for quite a while now hezbollah didn't touch Israel... did you see any Israeli incursions into Lebanon? no, so that's why I simply look at the situation as it occurred. Forget the casualties counts etc. I'm simply stating that if hezbollah didn't kill and kidnap some soldiers - it's more than plausible that not a single Lebanese would have lost their life from Israeli fire. This is very conveniently coinciding with kidnapping and killing of Israelis in Gaza and it just so happens that relatively recently there were some serious shipments of arms to hezbollah, right under UN's nose and NOBODY lifted a finger to do anything about it. All of this ...

invictus, let's call things what they are. for quite a while now hezbollah didn't touch Israel... did you see any Israeli incursions into Lebanon? no, so that's why I simply look at the situation as it occurred. Forget the casualties counts etc. I'm simply stating that if hezbollah didn't kill and kidnap some soldiers - it's more than plausible that not a single Lebanese would have lost their life from Israeli fire. This is very conveniently coinciding with kidnapping and killing of Israelis in Gaza and it just so happens that relatively recently there were some serious shipments of arms to hezbollah, right under UN's nose and NOBODY lifted a finger to do anything about it. All of this at the time when our little napoleon buddy is being grilled more and more on his nuclear ambitions. Did this war take the eye of the world off the guy? Absolutely. Hopefully not for too long, but it did. That's whom I personally blame for all of these deaths.

As for one-sided approach - I can't sympathize with terrorists, guilty as charged. But interestingly enough not everyone in Lebanon is blind, there are a number of Lebanese, including the son of that slain gentleman, can't recall his name, is certainly no fan of hezbollah by any stretch. The Lebanese finally had enough courage to for the most part kick Syria out, since due to them the country was being devastated (this isn't me talking, this is a friend of mine who's from Lebanon)... now they need to take it one step further and dump hezbollah.

And hezbollah's humanitarian efforts mean nothing but self-serving propaganda to me... because you can't be humanitarian when you hide weapon caches in hospitals and schools, of all places. We saw footage of ton of weapons being removed from a school. I don't understand how you're asking me to be evenhanded when looking at a group of people who intentionally put children in harm's way like that. Weapons don't belong in school!!! You disagree?

No, but if they put them out in the open, Israel would more than likely take them out. "Resistance" efforts through the ages have used the same tactics. In fact during the American civil war I bet you could find many occurrences of militias/freedom fighters/etc on both sides using similar tactics.

As for the Humanitarian bit: at least Hezbollah IS doing something to help the people, I bet if you ask them , they DO care that someone, anyone is helping, from here it is kind of pathetic that the government & UN can't help even nearly to the efficiency that Hezbollah can.

And the war didn't take our eye off of "Napoleon", he's been in the news here in Canada almost every day. Maybe in the U...

No, but if they put them out in the open, Israel would more than likely take them out. "Resistance" efforts through the ages have used the same tactics. In fact during the American civil war I bet you could find many occurrences of militias/freedom fighters/etc on both sides using similar tactics.

As for the Humanitarian bit: at least Hezbollah IS doing something to help the people, I bet if you ask them , they DO care that someone, anyone is helping, from here it is kind of pathetic that the government & UN can't help even nearly to the efficiency that Hezbollah can.

And the war didn't take our eye off of "Napoleon", he's been in the news here in Canada almost every day. Maybe in the US you can only sensationalize one story at a time (Today it seems to be the Bennett case...) but in Canada (at least NS) we watch everything

You call them terrorists, many others call them freedom fighters, etc. I think you need to read up on a little history on just what Israel has done in the past 40 or so years. They are just as guilty of what we today call "terrorist activities". Hell, they still run assassination plots, etc.

As for Israel not attacking Lebanon, again, you are bit off. They JUST left Lebanon a few years ago, after a decade or so of occupation (twice). They still occupy lands that were Lebanon's. They are also too busy killing civilians in Palestine And no, it's not ok as a response to Hamas' suicide attacks. Israel is supposed to be a civilized nation, you can't be civilized and still kill innocent people. We get mad at Iran, Iraq, etc for doing it (killing innocents), why is it ok when Israel does it? They after all, have advanced weaponry, better intelligence & logistics systems, etc.

And again, it doesn't seem to matter how many times invictus & I point out that Israel has been capturing (read: kidnapping) Hezbollah soldiers, it seems to be different if they do it. They CAPTURED 2 Israeli soldiers. Israel has "captured" hundreds.

You can be pointing things out all day long, I tend to trust the Israelis I talk to more than Canadians who are up on all the news. I'd like to see a rocket or two hit the town you're living in and then see how 'civilized' you'll remain. It's very clear from the action of these people in Lebanon and palestine than they don't want peace. If you want to defend hezbollah and their ilk - you should talk them into sitting down and hammering some sort of agreement. You can call terrorism anything you want - it's still terrorism. And this has zero similarity to US Civil War, how and why it was fought, nor does it have an incling of similarity to the resistance movement when the country was init...

You can be pointing things out all day long, I tend to trust the Israelis I talk to more than Canadians who are up on all the news. I'd like to see a rocket or two hit the town you're living in and then see how 'civilized' you'll remain. It's very clear from the action of these people in Lebanon and palestine than they don't want peace. If you want to defend hezbollah and their ilk - you should talk them into sitting down and hammering some sort of agreement. You can call terrorism anything you want - it's still terrorism. And this has zero similarity to US Civil War, how and why it was fought, nor does it have an incling of similarity to the resistance movement when the country was initially founded. You should read up on history the way it happened and then make analogies. Vietnam would probably be the only conflict US has been in where the enemies used similar to hezbollah tactics.

That's funny, I did read up on the history.. which is why I made those comments.

If a cluster bomb hit my town killing dozens of my fellow citizens, I'd join whomever was going to rise up against dropped it, and so would you.

If you DO READ your history, you can (and should) see that both conflicts (American Civil War and the Israel-Lebanon War) have A LOT of similarities. Both were over land, both involved organized militias and guerilla warfare, tactics that today would be (and are) seen as terrorism. Both involved the slaughter of civilians on both sides. Both today would/should be reprehensible in the eyes of civilized people (looking at the acts of either side!).

You can't say "r...

That's funny, I did read up on the history.. which is why I made those comments.

If a cluster bomb hit my town killing dozens of my fellow citizens, I'd join whomever was going to rise up against dropped it, and so would you.

If you DO READ your history, you can (and should) see that both conflicts (American Civil War and the Israel-Lebanon War) have A LOT of similarities. Both were over land, both involved organized militias and guerilla warfare, tactics that today would be (and are) seen as terrorism. Both involved the slaughter of civilians on both sides. Both today would/should be reprehensible in the eyes of civilized people (looking at the acts of either side!).

You can't say "read your history" and then not point out what you want me to read. I have read it, and I KNOW where the similarities are. I did not once infer that the conflicts were identical or even had identical causes, only that there were similarities. Don't put words in my mouth