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Johanna_Gfollowshare
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3-10-2008 1:31 PM
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Johanna_G says:
Die israelische Regisseurin Natalie Assouline hat über zwei Jahre Palästinenserinnen begleitet, die nach gescheiterten Selbstmordanschlägen in Israel inhaftiert wurden. Entstanden ist ein aufwühlender Film voller Widersprüche.

[...] Als sie mit Sehnsucht über ihre Kinder sprechen, die sie nur durch die Gitter sehen können, empfindet man Mitleid mit ihnen.

Als in einer Szene die 30-jährige Kahira endlich ihre vier Kinder umarmen darf, kommen dem Zuschauer Tränen in die Augen. Und das, obwohl er weiß, dass diese Mutter eine Mörderin ist.

Die israelische Regisseurin Natalie Assouline porträtiert in ihrem Debütfilm palästinensische Terroristinnen. Dabei lässt sie die Zuschauer immer wieder in der Spannung zwischen Mitgefühl und Verurteilung. Der bedrückende Dokumentarfilm heißt "Shahida", auf Arabisch "die Heilige", und als Heilige sehen sich diese Gefangenen. Das ist Teil ihrer Selbsttäuschung.

(Deutscher Originalartikel)
9 Comments   | Add a Comment
3-10-2008 6:40 PM
debbyski
Honey? I have a hard time translating your German. Sorry.
3-10-2008 7:43 PM
Johanna_G
Debbie, in "Johanna_G says", the clipped text passages are rendered in their the original German version on qantara.de.
I am glad that the articles on qantara.de appear in a German, in an English, and in a Turkish version.

NB: As long as you have a hard time translating my Deutsch only - and not my gauche English - I can put my mind at rest.
Hugs,
J.
:-x
3-10-2008 7:53 PM
debbyski
3-11-2008 1:40 AM
righthand
and these prisoners do see themselves as martyrs. That is part of their self-deception.
Odd jump in your logic. Check out Bobby Sands and friends. Martyr? All self-deception? Don't think so.
3-11-2008 1:43 AM
righthand
Sorry Israeli logic. That jump in logic is the kernel of the problem. Whose eyes, whose judgement?
3-11-2008 10:16 PM
Johanna_G
Israeli logic
Sorry, I don't know what that is. Igal Avidan is an Israeli, yes. Ehud Olmert is an Israeli, too. Ariel Sharon was an Israeli. And Uri Avnery is an Israeli, as well. Now tell me something on "Israeli logic".

But you may be right, righthand, asking "Whose eyes, whose judgement?" Your question relates to the suicide attackers' self-attribution as martyrs.
martyr
–noun
1. a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion.
2. a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause: a martyr to the cause of social justice.
3. a person who undergoes severe or constant suffe...
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3-13-2008 6:35 AM
righthand
If a martyr take his/her own life by starvation like Bobby Sands and his fellow Irish, and no other while this female attempted to become a martyr by explosion and the hope to take other with her, are either martyrs? States spend fortunes to learn to kill their enemies remotely like the drones. Collateral casualties are taken as acceptable.

Is there a double standard here? Ok for states to assassinate but not the most downtrodden in the world?
3-13-2008 8:28 AM
Rasmus
Ok for states to assassinate?
NO.
Ok for the most downtrodden in the world to assassinate?
NO. Even tyrannicide is ethically not that simple.

OK for anybody to spread terror? NO! NO!! NO!!!

OK for anybody to tread down anybody? NO. NO!! NO!!!

Can the idea of becoming a martyr be based on deception or, respectively, self-deception? YES.

Would I call suicide attackers who have torn a random gathering of people to shreds, martyrs? NO. Or, to be precise, I don't give a shit about their martyrdom or non-martyrdom. They are criminals and/or psychopaths, and that's that!
3-13-2008 9:08 AM
righthand
Would I call suicide attackers who have torn a random gathering of people to shreds, martyrs? NO. Or, to be precise, I don't give a shit about their martyrdom or non-martyrdom. They are criminals and/or psychopaths, and that's that!
and in an ideal just world you're correct. It something like the Catholic Church amd condoms. Wrong but everyone does.

Think of kids throwing stones at armoured tanks and getting killed. Now drones in the sky targeting whoever. Do you want the other side to fight with two hands tied behind their backs? Think the USA Kosovo. So new states can be created. Or is it only when the USA says so. So if countries seek back the bits of their territory all...
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