It also says Israel targeted supermarkets, water pumping stations and water treatment plants, which may have broken a prohibition in humanitarian law against targeting objects crucial to civilian survival. I think this makes Amnesty International look like idiots. So basically, if a non-government organization (nicest way possible to categorize Hezbollah) launches missiles at your country but hides in civilian areas you basically are committing war crimes if you respond. What a joke. I didn't read the full clip, but in general regards to total amount of infrastructural damage: I thought Israeli world-class security/intelligence was such that they're able to pinpoint the target's exact location. E.g. accurately confirm that a target was hiding in unit#3 out of as grp of 50 units, thus smoke unit#3 without destroying the entire 50unit grp? But Eric. Some of these targets were outside of Hezbollah's missile range. Geekette, when you have weapons stored in school, with people present - how accurately do you think anyone, world-class securityintelligence or not, can actually deliver something without causing damage to people at the same location? And having info on unit #s - you're not being serious thinking they'd have that kind of intelligence on all of the thousands of weapons stored throughout Lebanon. kmcolo, the targets were hezbollah, not their range of missiles. From the Amnesty report: Statements by Israeli military officials seem to confirm that the destruction of the infrastructure was indeed a goal of the military campaign. On 13 July, shortly after the air strikes began, the Israel Defence Force (IDF) Chief of Staff Lt-Gen Dan Halutz noted that all Beirut could be included among the targets if Hizbullah rockets continued to hit northern Israel: "Nothing is safe [in Lebanon], as simple as that,"(8) he said. Three days later, according to the Jerusalem Post newspaper, a high ranking IDF officer threatened that Israel would destroy Lebanese power plants if Hizbullah fired long-range missiles at strategic installations in northern Israel.(9... Some moving stuff there from Amnesty... where's that hanky?... In case you missed it, Amnesty was quoting Israeli military officials saying they were targetting civilian infrastructure in Lebanon, which disproves your argument that Israel was not deliberately targetting civilian buildings & facilities. These quotes go to show that Israel was not striking at schools because there were weapons there. Israel was striking at schools & other such buildings because they wanted to retaliate against Lebanese civilians. I didn't miss anything - you repeating the same content you clip doesn't change the situation. There was no reason to notify residents beforehand that their areas will be hit and Israel can do much more damage than they did. But they didn't. There's plenty of videos shown where all kinds of weapons were recovered from schools and from hospitals - it's not news that hezbollah was mixing in the civilian population and hiding weapons there. It's also clear why. Israel hit the very infrastructure that was enabling hezbollah's functionality. Because of hezbollah's tight integration into the Lebanese population - that's the same infrastructure that the Lebanese were using, so now both can't.... the IDF Chief of Staff had ordered the military to destroy 10 buildings in Beirut for every Katyusha rocket strike on Haifa. the IDF Chief of Staff...called Hizbullah "a cancer" that Lebanon must get rid of, "because if they don’t their country will pay a very high price.Those do not sound like the words of government officials who want to only limit strikes against Hezbollah. They sound like calls for collectively punishing Lebanese civilians for the crimes of Hezbollah. if Israel can be accused - hezbollah should then be accused 10 times over.Ironically, Israel probably killed around 10 times as many civilians as Hezbollah did. jklugman, what's with you and the numbers... can't you look at it from any other perspective? if you want some numbers - let me throw some at you - in the past 5 weeks 200 rapes occurred in refugee camps in Darfur! That's 40 a week... if you take our workweek as a basis - that's a rape occurring there every hour!!! Here are some more for you - since 2003 300,000 people were slaughtered there. Where's are you and the Amnesty on that one... or is 1000 Lebanese casualties somehow more relevant than 300,000 Africans? This is a lame argument. What has and is happening in Darfur is a tragedy, but just because horrors are occuring there has no bearing on the (im)morality of Israel's conduct in Lebanon. Would we let a murderer deflect attention away from his guilt if he started talking about how much greater are the atrocities in Sudan than his own crimes? It's not a lame argument... what it is is a testament to your anti-Israel stance. You clip all of these articles about number of bodies as some sort of indicator that the Israelis are the ones to blame for the Middle East mess. I simply brought up an example where a heck of a lot bodies are being killed, much worse atrocities done and you dismiss it as 'lame', only proving my point that this isn't about who's morally right or wrong and who's doing what to whom... it's strictly an anti-Israeli approach. And if that's your intent - you certainly have the right to be that way... but quit trying to justify and explain your view based on higher number of casualties as some indicator who's the c... Whether or not I am "anti-Israeli" is irrelevant to the issue at hand--Israel's guilt (or innocence) of war crimes. The fact that you use Darfur as a cudgel to attack Israel's critics suggest that you have no good defense of their conduct. How ridiculous is this? This is the new standard? At least Israeli soldiers are engaging in mass rape and haven't killed 300,000 people, they must be OK? With advocates like you, Israel surely does not need enemies. The WWII analogy. Chamberlain was wrong because he was trying to appease an aggressive military superpower with imperial ambitions. Who is the military superpower in the Middle East? Which country moves settlers onto lands owned by fo... The second paragraph should have read: How ridiculous is this? This is the new standard? At least Israeli soldiers are NOT engaging in mass rape and haven't killed 300,000 people, they must be OK? With advocates like you, Israel surely does not need enemies. It most certainly does have relevance - hitler wanted the Jews to be eliminated from the planet and so do all of the organizations you mentioned. Do you deny that? That's certainly the same analogy. As for the land - this is what happens when people lose wars - they lose land. Has been happening since the beginning of time. Not very many returned what they conquered, but the Israelis certainly returned some. And as for your viement anti-Israeli sentiments - of course it's relevant. You're not presenting a skewed opinion, which is why you get called on it... not any different than what a racist might do. If you can excuse terrorism just based on the fact that 'more people died' - that... It most certainly does have relevance - hitler wanted the Jews to be eliminated from the planet and so do all of the organizations you mentioned. Do you deny that? That's certainly the same analogy.I do. The Nazis did try to eliminate Jews from the planet. At worse, Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran want to end the Jewish state. That does not make them great guys, it does not excuse their killing, and it does not make them Nazis. You should be able to counter my opinions and arguments with your own opinions, arguments, and facts, rather than refer to my alleged vehement anti-Israeli views. Israeli soldiers are ok because they're normal people, who invent great things i... jklugman commenting from his alternate state of reality:If you actually think that there's a difference between the comparisons in your comment above - I'm afraid you are living in alternate reality. Numbers RecordSage said:5 weeks = 200 rapes 1 week = 40 rapes & 1 week = 24 hours * 7 days = 168 hours => not 1 rape every hour. RecordSage said: source said:In your logic, they got even? --[[b]... Djiezes, you missed my point about work week being 40 hours, i.e. rape every hour. My math is fine, you took the numbers differently than I intended. As for the nazi comment - there is not difference... it was the Germans wanting to wipe out the Jews, now it's the arabs wanting the same thing. Granted Germans aren't arabs, but otherwise - it's the same goal. What happened was real and it was started by terrorism. That's the thing that your side seem to ignore. If terrorism was taken out of the picture - it's highly unlikely that any of these deaths occurred. I'm not unsympathetic to the Lebanese... just as I'm not unsympathetic to the Japanese in WWII. But America did not attack Japa... |
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