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You can tell Warren hasn't used his brain in a while. He's like a robot. Are you kidding me? I think that both of these guys had some very legitimate points. If you're not willing to concede that some of the stuff Warren said makes sense and might possibly be true, I'd say you're pretty close-minded. Same thing to those who won't concede that Harris has some logical ideas. WARREN: You'd much rather have somebody—an atheist—feeding the hungry than a person who believes in God? All of the great movements forward in Western civilization were by believers. It was pastors who led the abolition of slavery. It was pastors who led the woman's right to vote. It was pastors who led the civil-rights movement. Not atheists. Rick, Christianity has conducted itself in an abjectly evil manner from time to time. How do you square that with the Christian Gospel of love? Sorry, I can't help but quote those passages that I think are really interesting and address certain points brought up here in Clipmarks. I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about, j. Like what issues/points does it adress? God must be laughing his heart out! 'since you're the home team, we'll start with Sam. Sam, is there a God in the sense that most Americans think of him?' oh yah... MadMax1982, I did not mean anything specific in this exchange or anything you just said. But in other clips there have been people who argued that Christianity can take credit for ending slavery, and that the crimes of Stalinism and Maoism can be laid at the door of atheism. Having said that, I am not a huge fan of atheism vs. Christianity pissing matches. They inevitably overlook variation within both camps, they rely on a selective reading of the evidence, and they see the root of all evil in the opposing camp (like Sam Harris does) and the root of all that is good in their own (like Rick Warren does). If you're not willing to concede that some of the stuff Warren said makes sense and might possibly be true, I'd say you're pretty close-minded.Let me get this straight... If we disagree with his point of view, we are closed minded... Finally, you people are starting to make a bit more sense... (well, how you reach such conclusions is making sense.. you people (God fearing ones) still make no sense to me, but i digress...) If i disagree with someone's statement, that means i disagree with it.. not that I am closed minded. Closed minded people refuse to listen to other's opinions. We read it, digested it, and fail to agree. WARREN: Sam makes all kinds of assertions based on his presuppositions. I'm willing to admit my presuppositions: there are clues to God. I talk to God every day. He talks to me.Someone's not taking their meds. WARREN: We both stand in a relationship of faith. You have faith that there is no God. In 1974, I spent the better part of a year living in Japan, and I studied all the world religions. All of the religions basically point toward truth. Buddha made this famous statement at the end of his life: "I'm still searching for the truth." Muhammad said, "I am a prophet of the truth." The Veda says, "Truth is elusive, it's like a butterfly, you've got to search for it." Then Jesus Christ comes along and says, "I am the truth." All of a sudden, that forces a decision. CatWhisperer, I wasn't saying that if you disagreed you are close-minded. I was saying that you ought to be able to discern the fact that at least some of what each person said is based on some amount of logic, you probably are not all that open-minded to whatever the opposing side is saying. If you meant to write that as: "I was saying that you ought to be able to discern the fact that at least some of what each person said is based on some amount of logic, If not, you probably are not all that open-minded to whatever the opposing side is saying." Then I agree. If you meant: "I was saying that you ought to be able to discern the fact that at least some of what each person said is based on some amount of logic. you probably aren't all that open-minded to whatever the opposing side is saying." Then I disagree. I am fairly open minded. I think that Warren belives (truly belives) in everything he is saying. I just think he's delusional in thinking t... No society in human history has ever suffered because it has become too reasonable. Great quotes to highlight. Thanks gzyra and Josh. I'm sorry CatWhisperer, I did mean to say what I did in the way you interpreted it in the first paragraph, it wasn't supposed to be a personal attack. As to the quote you included, I tend to side with Warren on this one. If we have no hope of a reward at the end or after this life, it seems like there is no reason living a certain way would be more beneficial than living another. It seems that if there is no God/gods our existence really doesn't matter, we're just a speck in history. What is wrong with being a speck in history? If you think about the entire history of the universe, this is the greatest time to be alive. Enjoy this time and try to make the world even better. Looking forward to your next life is only cheapening this current one. I'm just saying, think of all of the years that this world has existed. Think of the vast expanses of the universe and all of the other worlds and systems out there. I would think that if you had no faith in a God or in a better afterlife, it would make one feel significantly insignificant. We ARE insignificant. We are not the center of the universe. Some might say it's sad. I think it is awesome. Here's a great article by Neil deGrasse Tyson called The Cosmic Perspective. Back in February 2000, the newly rebuilt Hayden Planetarium featured a space show called “Passport to the Universe,” which took visitors on a virtual zoom from New York City to the edge of the cosmos. En route the audience saw Earth, then the solar system, then the 100 billion stars of the Milky Way galaxy shrink to barely visible dots on the planetarium dome. Right, that's what I'm saying. I don't understand how people who don't have any faith in a higher power aren't incredibly depressed at the concept of our lives being so insignificant. But why would we be? You assume we **need** a higher power to feel significant... i'm saying we don't need that. Now whose being close-minded? How is that closed mined? Again... I'm debating.. I'm saying we don't need a god to feel significant, you are saying we do... that's discussion.. if I'm closed mined, then so are you  (i'm assuming the closed minded comment was directed at me) Back to the discussion: Why do i need an all powerful God to feel significant? Why do I **need** an afterlife? None of you **know** for sure that there IS an afterlife anyway... at least to the point that you can prove it. So IMO you are all gambling. I know that my life has an impact on those around me and possibly even the world around me. So I feel that is enough. If I were not here, then those around me would have different lives... So I am in fact significant. As for the afterlife... I just don't think there is one.. at least not in the Christian sense. Nope. It was directed at MadMax. He accused me of being close-minded in his first comment. I believe that I have a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in my back yard. I haven't seen it, but it makes me feel good. I could not imagine living if I did not have that diamond. I feel sorry for other people that do not have diamonds in their back yards. I'm trying to be open minded, I just don't understand how, when you consider everyone who has ever lived throughout the ages, and all the people and history to come, how you can feel that this life has any significant impact or meaning. I was kind of hoping someone would offer some insight, because I really don't understand what you're thinking. Yes, and if it turns out that there is no diamond by the time you die or move out of the house or whatever, you've lost nothing. But if your neighbors have told you over and over that the diamond is there, and you ignore them, and one day move out of the house only to discover the diamond really was there, you realize you had something great but lost it and won't ever get it back again. What are the odds that the diamond in there. It's not 50-50. In fact it is so close to zero it might as well be zero. You're absolutely right, I don't know for sure. But no one has any more certainty as to how probable the existence of the diamond is than any other person. What are the odds that the diamond in there. It's not 50-50. In fact it is so close to zero it might as well be zero.Not only that, you could actually DIG and find out.. good luck digging for the tooth fairy.. er.. God My invisible pink unicorns graze in my back yard, so I don't want to dig it up. good point.. they can get awfully violet when you mess with their yard... MadMax1982, I did not mean anything specific in this exchange orJK, You are the most ignorant person I am aware of with the ability to spell words. Do you have help? Hey Willhelm. Nice to see you back. |
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