Don't you love the rationale of some Americans? Though they *claim* to be for "limited government", they are quick to support the idiodic idea that *if* the US government arbitrarily decides to kidnap you, to take you across state lines, to take you across international borders, to keep you without charges, to torture you, to do whatever-the-fuck they want, that its okay, because either they weren't Americans, or not on American soil.
The constitution is how WE give consent to be governed. Its protections and limitations are not magically null-and-void because some jackasses claim constitutional protections and limitations aren't for "other people". Bullshit. The constitutions protections a...

Don't you love the rationale of some Americans? Though they *claim* to be for "limited government", they are quick to support the idiodic idea that *if* the US government arbitrarily decides to kidnap you, to take you across state lines, to take you across international borders, to keep you without charges, to torture you, to do whatever-the-fuck they want, that its okay, because either they weren't Americans, or not on American soil.
The constitution is how WE give consent to be governed. Its protections and limitations are not magically null-and-void because some jackasses claim constitutional protections and limitations aren't for "other people". Bullshit. The constitutions protections and limitataions set what "our government" can do, and are not to be ignored on a flimsy technicality.
Perhaps now that Obama the liberal is in charge, conservatives will join us in opposing tyrannical government. God knows they wouldn't make a peep against Bushs tyranny.

Yea, the tens of thousands of people in Israeli prisons, esp. the woman and children, are all there by rendition. It's not like they actually committed crimes or there was any evidence of anything or they had their 'day in court."

The Irish refer to it as being "lifted." One day a teenage boy is walking on the street and the next thing his mother is wondering why he didn't come home for supper.

It's not a good thing.

Unfortunately the news report everybody above is reacting to is not the real story.

Maybe think about that for a bit: You've been lied to by people out to tear down the Obama Administration and you all jumped on the bandwagon.

The LA Times said, upfront: "It appears....." ...

Yea, the tens of thousands of people in Israeli prisons, esp. the woman and children, are all there by rendition. It's not like they actually committed crimes or there was any evidence of anything or they had their 'day in court."

The Irish refer to it as being "lifted." One day a teenage boy is walking on the street and the next thing his mother is wondering why he didn't come home for supper.

It's not a good thing.

Unfortunately the news report everybody above is reacting to is not the real story.

Maybe think about that for a bit: You've been lied to by people out to tear down the Obama Administration and you all jumped on the bandwagon.

The LA Times said, upfront: "It appears....." which is rather subjective to begin with.

Sec. 5 (a) ..(ii) of this Executive Order says:
QUOTE:
..(ii) to study and evaluate the practices of transferring individuals to other nations in order to ensure that such practices comply with the domestic laws, international obligations, and policies of the United States and do not result in the transfer of individuals to other nations to face torture or otherwise for the purpose, or with the effect, of undermining or circumventing the commitments or obligations of the United States to ensure the humane treatment of individuals in its custody or control.
END QUOTE

from article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-v-santore/what-is-obamas-rendition_b_162927.html

Maybe we should stop taking the judgements of the Obama Administration by Rush Limbaugh seriously....maybe when an Obama critic says "well, it appears like..." we might want to find out exactly what was stated or done.

I would suggest not spreading such negativity until you check it out from a few different sources, not just what Rush Limbaugh says it "appears," like or what a critical journalist might write.

Oh....and just a note for the deeply cynical: Yes, bad *hit will still go down and not everyone is gonna play by the rules...in case you didn't know. War is hell.

The LA Times said, upfront: "It appears....." which is rather subjective to begin with.

Good point, citizen.

From Harper's:

[i]The Los Angeles Times just got punked. It misses the difference between the renditions program, which has been around since the Bush 41 Administration at least (and arguably in some form even in the Reagan Administration) and the extraordinary renditions program which was introduced by Bush 43 and clearly shut down under an executive order issued by President Obama in his first week.

The extraordinary renditions program involved the operation of long-term detention facilities either by th...

The LA Times said, upfront: "It appears....." which is rather subjective to begin with.

Good point, citizen.

From Harper's:

The Los Angeles Times just got punked. It misses the difference between the renditions program, which has been around since the Bush 41 Administration at least (and arguably in some form even in the Reagan Administration) and the extraordinary renditions program which was introduced by Bush 43 and clearly shut down under an executive order issued by President Obama in his first week.

The extraordinary renditions program involved the operation of long-term detention facilities either by the CIA or by a cooperating host government together with the CIA, in which prisoners were held outside of the criminal justice system and otherwise unaccountable under law for extended periods of time.

The earlier renditions program regularly involved snatching and removing targets for purposes of bringing them to justice by delivering them to a criminal justice system. It did not involve the operation of long-term detention facilities and it did not involve torture.

Obama committed to shut down the extraordinary renditions program, and continuously made clear that this did not apply to the renditions program.

I noticed more and more that you can say anything you want on TV and in the news and like many crimes by Wall St. criminals or politicians there is no "accountability." --- not that a person should go to jail for lying or distorting the truth -- but how there is no challenge to falsehoods, no "fact checking."

The lie about Saddam Hussein trying to build nuclear weapons, buying yellowcake uranium from Niger is one example. Somebody just says this and it gets reported again and again: reporters don't seem to search for 'the truth,' much anymore.

Criticism appears more important than truth. Truth is boring. Criticism is exciting. (or so mainstream media seems to report).

Republicans are doi...

I noticed more and more that you can say anything you want on TV and in the news and like many crimes by Wall St. criminals or politicians there is no "accountability." --- not that a person should go to jail for lying or distorting the truth -- but how there is no challenge to falsehoods, no "fact checking."

The lie about Saddam Hussein trying to build nuclear weapons, buying yellowcake uranium from Niger is one example. Somebody just says this and it gets reported again and again: reporters don't seem to search for 'the truth,' much anymore.

Criticism appears more important than truth. Truth is boring. Criticism is exciting. (or so mainstream media seems to report).

Republicans are doing so well, we're being told by the media -- being told that Republicans are winning the 'spin war," and media war because all their exciting criticisms are reported over and over again...it apparently must stir up network ratings.

Last week I heard that 'liberals don't pay taxes...so that's why they don't care about tax increases." this linked to a proposed Cabinet official failing to report a gift of a car and driver as income.

(He gets this car and driver just because he's a nice guy and someone likes him)..um, sarcasm.

So a Rush-style Limberism is launched: Liberals don't pay taxes and the news reports it for a few days.

Today I heard that President Obama has failed to deliver on his health care promise.

Funny enough...a big bill for children's health care was signed into law that day...something blocked by Bush and the Republicans for eight years; a major victory (like other victories for equal pay for equal work, for unions, for civil rights and justice)...but all Republicans have to do is say Obama has yet to deliver on his health promises and That Becomes the News.

Obama also called a female music star 'fat."

You see what a bad man he is.

Of course he didn't say that. He merely read a magazine headline that was shoved in his face that mention "weight battle."

Similarly, I've been thinking today about the GOP's howl that Obama always got more positive coverage than McCain during the campaign. It misses the obvious point.

When a candidate is setting fundraising records, is attracting vast numbers of new voters, has tens of thousands at his rallies, and is an electrifying speaker, those are facts that must be reported.

Meanwhile, the other candidate is slipping in the polls, attracts precious few, has trouble raising money, and doesn't offer much in the way of policy, well, that's facts, too, that must be reported.

The idea that two candidates should have equally positive coverage when one is far ahead would require distortion of the facts: one ...

Similarly, I've been thinking today about the GOP's howl that Obama always got more positive coverage than McCain during the campaign. It misses the obvious point.

When a candidate is setting fundraising records, is attracting vast numbers of new voters, has tens of thousands at his rallies, and is an electrifying speaker, those are facts that must be reported.

Meanwhile, the other candidate is slipping in the polls, attracts precious few, has trouble raising money, and doesn't offer much in the way of policy, well, that's facts, too, that must be reported.

The idea that two candidates should have equally positive coverage when one is far ahead would require distortion of the facts: one story is inherently positive; the other, not so much. That may be simple objectivity.