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6-15-2008 8:12 PM
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Silkweaver says:
A very interesting read! Of course, what are we going to do with eternity is not a medical question but rather philosophical and emotional. At least we will have time enough for love... For the quasi immortal humans of the future, nothing in this existence will look even remotely similar to the way we see things today.
26 Comments   | Add a Comment
6-15-2008 8:50 PM
syncopath
How else can one threaten, other than with death? The interesting, the original thing, would be to threaten someone with immortality.
Jorge Luis Borges
6-15-2008 8:52 PM
syncopath
I swear there is nothing but immortality
Walt Whitman
6-16-2008 9:19 AM
darkles
Oh Please,
Most people get bored with just ONE rainy Sunday. What would they do with eternity?
6-16-2008 10:00 AM
aklimento
Common, this is not for everybody. For elite only. We have to find out, who's an elite.

Such speculations were exciting 50 years ago in fantastic novels and movies. 1000 of what? Years?
6-16-2008 11:36 AM
Silkweaver
Those getting bored will still have a choice of a peaceful departure.

We are speculating all the time just about everything. This one (extreme life extension) seems to be an interesting and important speculation if only for the reason that it exposes how we think and feel about something so fundamental as life and death.
6-16-2008 12:02 PM
chiggles
Another side of the coin to life extension and immortality is population. Sure, not every last one of the near seven billion people on this planet would be privileged enough to be granted hundreds if not a thousand years of life, but how many would be capable? New division in society of mortals and immortals, instead of rich and poor, proletariat and bourgeoisie, on and on.

Though I do think the idea of a serial killer who strikes every decade for centuries is quite awesome.
6-16-2008 12:52 PM
tabsey
Presumably the govt couldn't afford to lock a tenth of the criminal population for life. Hang 'em and save a trillion.
6-16-2008 1:04 PM
Silkweaver
Have you heard about ALCOR, after some restructuring and updating their mission statement, they could freeze prisoners in compact containers, for any period specified by the court.

Another solution, penal colonies on Pluto
6-16-2008 4:25 PM
blarson0220
Then again, "Man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment." Hebrews 9:27, the Bible. To learn how to get ready for death and judgment see John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 3:9-26 in the Bible.
6-16-2008 7:59 PM
meancookie89
living immortally doesn't solve
- over population
- limited energy
- wealth disparity
- unhappiness
-generation gaps
-removal of the old ways

etc.

in fact i think it will make our problems even more apparent !
6-17-2008 1:39 AM
pokkets
There is the fear of death that also masks a more profound curiosity.
Is there anything beyond the life we see now?
All we can have in this life is faith that such a state exists. Knowing requires that the boundary be crossed.
However long we extend our lives, to eliminate pain we would have to shed all emotions.
A leper can feel no pain. This can lead to an unnoticed injury going septic.
Both Heaven and oblivion are painless.
The Demons of our own creation come only at our invitation.
Hell is a reflection of our fears.
Something more critical than the elimination of death, is the elimination of fear.
And in an overpopulated world there are bound to be a greater number of road fatalities.
...
6-17-2008 11:20 AM
Silkweaver
Pokkets, I definitely agree that elimination of fear, is as important even perhaps more important than life extension. Though it seems to me that death is for many one of the most prominent sources of fear. If we eliminate it, all other fears may be more manageable. I do not believe in the afterlife and I think afterlife in its myriad versions is a story we invented as an answer to the profound fear of death. Life extension does not mean elimination of pain, an certainly not shedding any emotions. On the contrary, it seems to me that a good reason to keep on leaving is the infinite exploration of our emotional planes.
6-17-2008 11:31 AM
Silkweaver
Meancookie89, Life extension is not supposed to solve EVERYTHING. It is supposed to solve sickness, old age and death which according to the teaching of the Buddha are the roots of suffering. As to the rest, there is a bigger package that includes other solutions:

Over population: A clean earth can sustain many many billions of humans + perhaps once we live very long perhaps the population will not grow as much because we will not fear for our continuation as we do, so we will be less inclined to procreate.

Limited energy: we need clean renewable energy and lots of it with or without life extension. I believe it is on its way.

Wealth disparity: again has nothing to do with how long we liv...
6-17-2008 11:35 AM
skwirlinator
1000 years of pain and misery - no thanx!
6-17-2008 12:44 PM
chiggles
If there's trouble enough getting humanitarian aid to countries in Africa to help prevent the spread of AIDS, and if these people willing engage in unprotected sex despite knowing the consequences, how is the promise of immortality going to keep people from unprotected sex, and therefore birthing more babies? It's not as if people engage in sex just for the sake of baby makin', people enjoy fucking. Often times (as could be gathered from America today), babies are just a possible consequence of sex, unplanned, not thought out, hardly a reasoned and logical thing.

And reason and logic are what nearly all advocates of immortality believe humans obey. Hardly so. There is a great gap of differ...
6-17-2008 8:35 PM
Silkweaver
Well, I believe humans can change. Somewhat naive, I know... Why is it that this idea is so horrifying? Does it have to do with all the so called difficulties expressed above? Or is there another deeply ingrained irrational psychological inhibition, A Taboo?

What about Star Track's "Going where no man has gone before" ?
6-18-2008 5:42 AM
chiggles
Firstly, naivete does not matter to me, so long as the naive person does not make some claim towards science or reason and logic being our savior. I'd be happier if one believed in The Rapture and made no claims to science, than to hear one claim rationality yet give absolutely no explanation for how these things might happen. Additionally, when asked honest and earnest questions concerning perceived problems with some posited notion, and insinuate through poor pop psychology (after having knowledge of somebody's character for all of three paragraphs worth), that this other person suffers from something irrational and backwards (primitive), "difficulties expressed" and "deeply ...
6-18-2008 10:01 AM
skwirlinator
Nanotechnology promises life extension and health. It is believable, we exist by nano processes even now.
Eric Drexler said:

CELL REPAIR MACHINES raise questions involving the value of extending human life. These are not the questions of today's medical ethics, which commonly involve dilemmas posed by scarce, costly, and half-effective treatments. They are instead questions involving the value of long, healthy lives achieved by inexpensive means.
6-18-2008 10:02 AM
skwirlinator
he also said:

For people who value human life and enjoy living, such questions may need no answer. But after a decade marked by concern about population growth, pollution, and resource depletion, many people may question the desirability of extending life; such concerns have fostered the spread of pro-death memes. These memes must be examined afresh, because many have roots in an obsolete worldview. Nanotechnology will change far more than just human lifespan.
6-18-2008 10:03 AM
skwirlinator
We will gain the means not only to heal ourselves, but to heal Earth of the wounds we have inflicted. Since saving lives will increase the number of the living, life extension raises questions about the effect of more people. Our ability to heal the Earth will lessen one cause for controversy.
Still, cell repair machines themselves will surely stir controversy. They disturb traditional assumptions about our bodies and our futures: this makes doubt soothing. They will require several major breakthroughs: this makes doubt easy. Since the possibility or impossibility of cell repair machines raises important issues, it makes sense to consider what objections might be raised.
6-18-2008 10:05 AM
skwirlinator
Concern about population and resources will remain important because the exponential growth of replicators (such as people) can eventually overrun any finite resource base.
Long life also raises the threat of cultural stagnation. If this were an inevitable problem of long life, it is unclear what one could do about it - machine-gun the old for holding firm opinions, perhaps? Fortunately, two factors will reduce the problem somewhat. First, in a world with an open frontier the young will be able to move out, build new worlds, test new ideas, and then either persuade their elders to change or leave them behind. Second, people old in years will be young in body and brain. ...
6-18-2008 10:08 AM
skwirlinator
Imagine someone who is now thirty years old. In another thirty years, biotechnology will have advanced greatly, yet that thirty-year-old will be only sixty. Statistical tables which assume no advances in medicine say that a thirty-year-old U.S. citizen can now expect to live almost fifty more years - that is, well into the 2030s. Fairly routine advances (of sorts demonstrated in animals) seem likely to add years, perhaps decades, to life by 2030. The mere beginnings of cell repair technology might extend life by several decades. In short, the medicine of 2010, 2020, and 2030 seems likely to extend our thirty-year-old's life into the 2040s and 2050s. By then, if not before, medical adv...
6-18-2008 10:15 AM
skwirlinator
6-18-2008 10:31 AM
Silkweaver
skwillinator, thank you for the lengthly reference. This is a brilliant book.
— Comment removed by clipper —
6-18-2008 11:08 AM
Silkweaver
chiggles: Nothing is far from my intentions as any kind of personal attack. If anything of what I wrote was experienced as a personal attack, I truly apologize. What I am interested in is an informed debate and a fertile exchange of ideas. I do think that making a claim about science as a potential agency that might transform our lives as individuals and as a civilization, is perfectly legitimate. A savior is primarily an emotional concept I do not think it is a fit description of my claim. Of course I agree with you that technological advancement can go awefully wrong, and there is some substantial probability that it will. but then, so many things are going wrong these days, that I do not ...
6-18-2008 11:15 AM
Silkweaver
Continued: This is not a purely scientific question. The only role science plays here is a plausible doubt cast on on the finality of physical death. It injects life, so to say, into a riddle whose age is the age human civilization. I do think it is extremely valuable riddle in the quest of understanding ourselves as individual persons and as a society.
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