I can't blame the soldiers invictus. It is the fault of those at the top for sending people over that had no training in dealing with this and also people who are niave. Consider most of the people sent were reservists. That means they only train 2 weekends a month and 2 weeks a year. Besides that, if they were TOLD/ORDERED to do something, chances are they HAD to do it. Especially if CIA or other top dogs pushed this down the line. Even if this was not pushed down - I liken this to someone put in a desert and told to survive. These people were not mentally stable to handle hte siuationa nd not trainined on how to obtain stability, etc.

I am not defending the gruesome happenings, but ...

I can't blame the soldiers invictus. It is the fault of those at the top for sending people over that had no training in dealing with this and also people who are niave. Consider most of the people sent were reservists. That means they only train 2 weekends a month and 2 weeks a year. Besides that, if they were TOLD/ORDERED to do something, chances are they HAD to do it. Especially if CIA or other top dogs pushed this down the line. Even if this was not pushed down - I liken this to someone put in a desert and told to survive. These people were not mentally stable to handle hte siuationa nd not trainined on how to obtain stability, etc.

I am not defending the gruesome happenings, but merely stating that I cannot blame the soldiers. I blame those who sent them and those who may have given orders. All I can blame the soldiers for is having fear and ignorance in dealing with the beasts putting them there or in such a position.

I know rmowery, such things are usually the indirect branches of general policies rather than being individual actions. But even as a soldier in the army, don't people have a choice or an individual initiative to do or not to do such and such things?

The commanders might give orders mentioning a bad treatment to prisoners but do they really give details to soldiers like "rip them off their clothes, connect electrodes to their bodies, make them with showers and beat them, make the dogs bite them"... I don't know. They might ignore or overlook what soldiers do right there in the prison, or even some of them could encourage such sick souls. But how about the individual's common sense? Would y...

I know rmowery, such things are usually the indirect branches of general policies rather than being individual actions. But even as a soldier in the army, don't people have a choice or an individual initiative to do or not to do such and such things?

The commanders might give orders mentioning a bad treatment to prisoners but do they really give details to soldiers like "rip them off their clothes, connect electrodes to their bodies, make them with showers and beat them, make the dogs bite them"... I don't know. They might ignore or overlook what soldiers do right there in the prison, or even some of them could encourage such sick souls. But how about the individual's common sense? Would you do those things, even if you were ordered to do? A sane mind should say "This is deadly wrong, I should not be a part of this thing." If someone does all these things and defends himself/herself saying "I was following the orders", sorry, but I don't respect that guy.

Gen. Peter Pace said: "It is the absolute responsibility of everybody in uniform to disobey an order that is either illegal or immoral." I clipped the story last week:

http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/1C303C85-8664-49B9-ABD1-DB189461FF55/

Some of this is peer pressure... or so it is my belief. Based on? The young female soldier (don't recall her name just now), who was caught on film sitting on top of nude prisoners. Maybe you recall who I'm referring to? Anyhow, in a TV interview she stated that much of it was peer pressure. I tended to believe that but also felt she was guilty of voluntary participation.

There is no excuse for what they did. I don't understand how one could live with themselves for having participated in such abuse, whether coerced, voluntary or otherwise.
However, there is a chain of command, and there is a fear and improper training. All these factors play a role as rmowery stated similarly.

And...

Some of this is peer pressure... or so it is my belief. Based on? The young female soldier (don't recall her name just now), who was caught on film sitting on top of nude prisoners. Maybe you recall who I'm referring to? Anyhow, in a TV interview she stated that much of it was peer pressure. I tended to believe that but also felt she was guilty of voluntary participation.

There is no excuse for what they did. I don't understand how one could live with themselves for having participated in such abuse, whether coerced, voluntary or otherwise.
However, there is a chain of command, and there is a fear and improper training. All these factors play a role as rmowery stated similarly.

And although it's inhumane, this wouldn't be the first country, nor the first time in the history of wars, that abuses and tortures took place in war-time. Again, not to say it's right. Just to state a fact.

It is unthinkable and a true embarrassment for lack of better words. This type of situation is just one reason why this exists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights

PS - what really angers me about this... Regardless of whether the prisoners were thought to be or found guilty of terrorist or criminal activity, what right was it of the U.S's or anyone "in charge" to take it upon themselves to command such abuses, most of which could not have been worse than what Hussein pulled off. But horrific nonetheless in their own right. (If that can be made a politically correct statement)

"Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the hi...

PS - what really angers me about this... Regardless of whether the prisoners were thought to be or found guilty of terrorist or criminal activity, what right was it of the U.S's or anyone "in charge" to take it upon themselves to command such abuses, most of which could not have been worse than what Hussein pulled off. But horrific nonetheless in their own right. (If that can be made a politically correct statement)

"Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,"

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,"

"No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."

http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/lang/eng.htm