 jatfla says: Oh my gosh!....the man speaks for me much better than I could ever speak. How can anyone confuse diplomacy with appeasement. I could understand the point of view in this short clip if there was a real, well defined "enemy" out there in Iraq that we could fight. I just don't see one. Sorry, I think Bush and his followers are not too good at this "foreign policy, and domestic security" stuff. Bush has made us less safe and less respected as a nation. It will take us decades to recover. History will look back on Bush as THE U.S. president who had the courage to fight terrorism wherever it is. This is a real threat. How you not see it? It baffles my mind that we are at a turning point in world history and so many people worldwide don't see it. I didn't see the President backing down on diplomacy at any point during his presidency. Many times his efforts were *in the news* and probably most of the time, they haven't been. Our well defined enemy is the *radical Islamist* who will use "terrorism" (the current definition) to kill innocent people; ie, the children in Russia, the airline high-jacking from Britian, the murder of Christian nuns in Indonesia, the attacks in Spain.....the list is endless. And WE have not had a successful attack on our people since 9/11 with several attempts thwarted. Don't really want to start another debate :~) ...but thought a post from a respected, knowledgeable, elder Democrat was an interesting c... This liberal and leftist media is really doing a good job. I totally refrain from political debate at all costs! I just want to add though and then slither away from my comment. Another of our defined enemies is <b>free speech</b>! See when I clip a work I mess up because I do everything in a hurry. jatfla, you forgot to tag this clip "humor" just kidding...couldn't resist  And which "terrorists" are we killing in Iraq? No weapons of mass destruction. No link to September 11. No immediate threat to the US. No support from the UN for our invasion. No International support. Just Oil and big corporate Cronnie-ism. It makes me sick. "what he said" (svenmarley) underscored, in caps, with exclamation points Bush: the president who sticks to his gut feeling no matter how wrong it turns out to be, and no matter how many more people it kills that any terrorists have. Oh, is my face red Jatfla, you had me fooled for a while, but now I see that you are a master of satire.  This just in: Percent of Americans who think Bush is the year's biggest villain: 25%. Next biggest villain: Osama bin laden, at 8%. Percent of Americans who think Bush is the year's biggest hero: 13%. Next biggest hero: American troops, at 6%. [1] He sticks with his beliefs, no matter how intense the criticism and invective that are directed against him every day.Isn't that what autocratic, tyrannical, murdering insane dictators usually do? Daaaaa! sven.....we obviously don't read the same "news" sources and no, I'm not a master of satire (you know I was serious), and there was no way I would have added the tag "humor". All these things are *deadly* serious. I truly don't understand what has happened to America. Our TV's have convinced us of their political propaganda. I hope none of us ever have to experience first-hand, again, the actual force of murderous evil and hatred. Iraqis have, as well has millions of others. Those very ones who condemn the Administration for Iraq are the very ones begging us to do something in Africa; knowing full well that the UN will not. Jatfla, I would earnestly ask you if you really think the mainstream media is some big leftist propaganda network? Yes. A good 90% of it. And no, I don't just watch Fox or listen to Limbaugh. There are the small voices of experience and historical perspective out there too. We can't get the "truth" spoon-fed to us by a couple of mega-media conglomerates with their own agenda. Moving day for daughter!! :~) Will meet with you again over a more fun-topic soon! An okay clip nonetheless jatfla. It's necessary to hear both sides to understand where we're all coming from in our thoughts and opinions, so even though we may differ greatly in opinion, it's good to read the other side's take on things anyway. If you seriously think the media is left-wing, you need to check out this video: http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/1237CAAF-91A3-4660-A13B-1DB4F0EF1960/ Amen to that LGagnon. It is an interesting clip. It does show some of almost psychological divide in the country. The hardcore Bush supporters long for "heroes" and "strong leadership." But I think to many people the idea of thinking of the president as a "hero" has a rather weird, over-the-top feeling, and would even if he were an effective president. Ok I read the article in full, including the recommendations for Iraq, and I take that back. The psychological problem here isn't authoritarianism, but senile dementia. +1 to svenmarley Adolf Hitler did what he believed to be in the best interest of Germany. Sorry. Had to be said. Bad bad Funana. But anyways a good clip! History will look back on Bush as THE U.S. president who had the courage to create terrorism wherever it could be. I now understand why you (jatfla) did not follow through on the "where I stand" political compass that I clipped. You gave up at the first item because that could be answered both ways - this is true of virtually all 'typologies'. You have to go for what seems most appropriate for you - your gut sense. It is exactly the same gut sense that gave you the opinion that "George Bush is a Hero" is "right". Outside of America the view is so very different. I think it is hard for those within the States to see quite how the media (often attacked for being 'liberal') provides a sanitized version of news. If we just take Iraq - which was a Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheyney enterprise from the beginning - ... I don't believe Bush can be a considered a hero, by any means, not by left or right, American or not. His foreign policies have so hurt the US' reputation and standing internationally and has regressed the US back into a state of imperialism and tyranny that will take many many years to mend. His foreign policies have so hurt the US' reputation and standingNonsense .... this comment has no basis in fact it is only an opinion. Eagle, most of the world hates the US now. That's proof that our reputation is soiled. As for imperialism, what do you think we are doing with permanent bases in Iraq? And war is tyrannical, not to mention an advanced variant of terrorism. Everything our enemies do is good; everything the US Imperialists do is bad. s/off Do I care if "the world hates the US now"? NO! And I don't believe that has any basis for facts. Where has the US gone to set itself up as ruler/dictator, subjugated indigenous peoples, raped, pillaged, stripped the country of it's resources, made an American the ultimate authority and power.....No Where! You're reading the wrong sources with their hate-America first agenda. We ARE doing good; but good news doesn't fit with the current world power-grab or the radical Islamist's propaganda war that is a battle for our very existence. Being hated is proof of nothing regarding the hated. Where has the US gone to set itself up as ruler/dictator, subjugatedOh God, I just feel like praying. Jatfla, you put things into much too extreme terms. Not everything we do is wrong, but much of it is. And no, our enemies don't do everything right; they do a lot wrong, actually. But two wrongs don't make a right. And I don't see why you'd be afraid of terrorists if you didn't care if other people don't like us. Terrorists don't like us, and you conservatives seem very concerned about that. You'd probably like help from other nations to stop them, but if they hate us they might not help. By the way, thanks for describing what we're doing in Iraq. And no, there isn't good news to report. The election in Iraq was a fraud, set up to give us more power and them less. Women's rights are going ... LGagnon: Amen! Where has the US gone to set itself up as ruler/dictator, subjugated indigenous peoples, raped, pillaged, stripped the country of it's resources, made an American the ultimate authority and power.....No Where!There's an interesting book out there in reality land called "A Peoples History Of The United States", written by Howard Zinn. I live in a world that is "shades of grey"....not "black and white". The United States has done some great and good things in the world, it has also done some bad, ugly, and demented things in the world. I guess that's because the United States is composed of people....human beings that are not always at the top of their game as ca... "Everything our enemies do is good; everything the US Imperialists do is bad." I was being sarcastic. I'm in agreement schreibe, there's a lot of good people from USA have done globally, but the bad takes over and hides the good thing. People like jatfla (nothing personal here) can live in the fantasy land if they want, but Americans have projected worst impression on the world stage, since Bush has taken the office (the who cares mentality doesn't help either). This is the immediate reality whether we want to accept it or not. I would like to add to the WHO CARES crowd. Hear me and hear me good. Are you ready. Here goes. I am going to say it LOUD AND CLEAR! I really do not care if people like us or do not like us. I really do not care if they hate us. Or if militant Islamic Jihadists think we are Satan or not. Because no matter what we do they are going to think that anyway. But let it be known and understood. If and when any of them U.S. HATERS decide to come to my hometown and blow things up and kill innocent people just because they are too cowardly to take the matter through the proper channels then I SAY BLOW THEM ALL TO HELL!!! Aim the biggest and the baddest gun we got and PULL THE TRIGGER! If the... If and when any of them HATERS decide to come to my hometown and blow things up and kill innocent people just because they are too cowardly to take the matter through the proper channels then I SAY BLOW THEM ALL TO HELL!!! Aim the biggest and the baddest gun we got and PULL THE TRIGGER!That's exactly what people in foreign countries think about US troops in their neighborhood. EXACTLY! Congratiulations. That will make the world a better place, bang bang, cowboy, wohheeee! Think about that, my american friend. And who will they want to come to their aid when it's their country being attacked, terrorized, their families annihilated? Not the UN, Russia, France, China, Egypt, etc.... You-know-who will come; we always have. AND get criticized when we don't do *more*. Thats selfmade. America uses to be the Worldpolice and so they are the ones who are called to help. But Afghanistan didnt call for help and Iraq neither. In the case of germany btw. America was not the only country who fought those f*in Nazis, Russia helped us too. And both have been welcome. Maybe one day the US will really be attacked (which is unrealistic, but who knows) and who will you call then? Your troops that are blown across the globe? Seems as a young German you'd have a little more understanding and gratitude for bang bang cowboy wohheeee!, without which you certainly wouldn't be listening to the American hip-hop that you so love, or enjoying the beautiful, LightBlack. Strictly oompah 24.7. As I said before GD, I love America and the american people. I love the afro american culture and I love the idea of the USA. And I have gratitude for that, Godfrey. But that doesnt mean that I have to close my lips and stop thinking. I read his statement about shooting and pulling the trigger and it sounded EXACTLY like the fascist fundamental muslims sound. Thats all. And that's cowboy bang bang woheee like, yes sir! Well, I was specifically speaking of the American military, your cultural appreciation is obvious, and has nothing to do with anything. I happen to love Iranian, Afgan, and Arabic music. I think it's really unfortunate that you see as equivalent, terrorism, and the response to it. Unfortunate, and incomprehensible. incomprehensible? Okay I will try to make my point clear. You can't fight fire with fire. As long as the only way to react to terrorizm is bombing (which mostly doesnt kill the terrorists, but a lot of innocent people) there will NEVER be a way out of this. I know that it's a difficult question how one should react to terror, but what I know is, that America is not seen as the big helper in the arabian world. I understand that one would like to kill the killers of their families, but thats exactly what the terrorists claim to do. Another big question is: What has (or had) Saddam to do with the terrorists that attacked America? Or: Have the attacks been terrorist attacks, or wa... What a depressing conversation. I mean, the whole idea of calling a politician a "hero" strikes me as fundamentally un-American. Bush is an ordinary American just like me. He got elected President. That doesn't mean I have to worship him, or that i shouldn't criticize him. It also doesn't mean that he's had to show any personal bravery. He surrounds himself with a staff that never lets any negative feedback reach his ears or his desk. He is well known for firing people who tell him his plans won't work well. Yes, he has decided on a bold and violent policy with regard to the Islamic world. Yes, he has refused to allow criticism to change his mind. So he's got firm convictions. I'll grant t... Enbar...I value your opinions. The article was about President Bush being a "hero" in Mr. Koch's mind. He didn't agree with all his policies or decisions, but he did consider him someone to be admired. So do I. And he is a Democrat which I found amazing! It's sad to me that our "politicians" are no longer our heroes. They're not even "statesmen", but I believe that our ability in this generation to pick apart every aspect of a person's life and personality has jaded and shaded their good qualities. There are no perfect people, but there are imperfect people who can do good and honorable things. Concerning this President, most believe he has done nothing worthy of praise or honor. M... Wow , I agree with Enbar? He may have done some politically brave things regarding the fight against islamic extremism, but he is no hero. I believe he may be the most disliked and unadmired president of the 20th century and deservedly so. He sold out everyone and cowardly reacted to political winds. Carter can now breathe a sigh of relief. I do not hate Bush. However, his ineptitude, arrogance, and unwillingness to take a conservative stand after claiming to be a conservative is cowardly. He is a failure. When we needed a Reagan, we got a Clinton. Actually, we got a Reagan. Like Reagan, he used trickle-down to destroy the economy. Like Reagan, he sides with people who are bad for our country (except it's the Saudis this time instead of Saddam). Like Reagan, he causes chaos but is not well opposed by anyone. Like Reagan, he is helping to spread disease (with abstinence-only, he spreads more than just the AIDS that Reagan refused to fight). Let's face it, this guy is way too much like Reagan, and that's why he's bad. This is a destroyed economy? That is just flat hilarious. ...and they're both evil disease spreaders! Man, how can you be simultaneously so serious and so funny...! to destroy the economy.Lg, you are utterly foolish. GD, kids who don't know how to protect themselves from STDs are quite likely to get them. After all, teens in general don't really buy that abstinence-only propaganda. It's their generation's "Just Say No" (and look how badly that turned out). Willhelm, why do you think Clinton got into power? As his campaign manager famously said, "it's the economy, stupid!" The Reagan/Bush era was bad for our economy, stealing from the poor to give to the rich. Trickle-down was a joke, and Reagan's anti-worker changes only further messed things up. Great argument, by the way. You so come off as a master of rhetoric by name calling. How about using "doodie-head" or "poopie-brains" next time? It'll get the same message across with twice the humor. ...why do you think Clinton got into power? Hints: big ears, french name, barely over 5', talked funny and about "giant sucking sounds" riiiiiiiiiight ... he sticks to his guns, but his guns killed a hundred thousand innocent people, and they made the enemy stronger than ever. The problem with terrorism is the terrorists are cowards. They hide like sand fleas amongst the local populations. If these so called haters of America have a bitch well then go to the STATE HOUSE and state your case. Hi jacking planes and flying them into buildings filled with people that do not even know who the hell you people are is not how you deal with issues. BUT if you like to deal with issues that way then my response is to retaliate in like manner. There is no way anyone can find those cowards hiding amongst the people because they will not put on a uniform and stand up like men to fight. You want to fight well then bring it on MAN TO MAN Military to military. But see this is n... How can anyone be so naive??? Bush and Cheney wrote papers on the Middle East and how to take it down 20 years ago. They are just now carrying out the plan. It's all about oil and nothing else. If you think it's about Democrazy...you're nuts! If they were truly interested in helping the oppressed, they would be in Africa staving off tyranny, oppression, and corruption. Mark my words, the next target...or should say the real target...is Iran and its oil. They may take time to invade Nigeria for its oil reserves first since the leaders there have embezzled 100's of Billions of dollars and are willing to pay America handsomely to help preserve their pillaging ways...especially if Congress refus... If they were truly interested in helping the oppressed, they would beWe are and we are. I am confused. We are told by you all that we should mind our own business. Okay leave Iraq but then you turn around and say we should butt in elsewhere.. Dafur, sudan etc. Okay so we help and then we are told we are not doing enough. SO WE DO MORE. Then we are told we are only interested in OIL or slaves or whatever the hell you all come up with. Why don't you all do something? STOP taking our money and our resources and calling us in everytime you got a problem you can not handle after you screw it all up. I really wish they would take all the oil and make you all come begging us for it. THEN we can be even more rich and powerful and kick even more booty. IF we wanted the oil we would have it. Eaglewings, do you really the US can kick the entire world's ass all the time? and do you really think it's a good idea? Remember this is real life, not a comic book. enbar no I don't but we should not have to. However if the whole world is going to rise up against us like it will against Israel well then I sure as hell hope we have the biggest and the baddest bombs on the planet and are not afraid to use them. If reaching out to these nations with humanitarian aid and financial help is not enough to befriend them then I do not know what to do for them. Withhold good and let them suffer under their own delusions? I am more interested in spreading the gospel around the world so that no one has to fight anyone. HOWEVER because I live in a real world and not a comic book fanatsy I realize that people hate us just because they love to hate. What to do ab... But anyone who has half a brain knows that all that hate speech is just propaganda to promote their twisted sick evil world domination agenda.Ah. So you're talking about the USGovBushCheneyGang right now, arent you? Man man man. I feel very depressed about your soul, full of anger and hate. You are the one who hates all the time, calls for bombs and asskicks... And you really are christian? I just don't get it... I thought that one who is a christian knows about brotherly love and forgiveness. Who would know that terror and war are no answers to terror and war. But maybe I'm wrong or I am just that stupid guy, like you mentioned before. Man man man. I feel very depressed about your soul, full of anger and hate. You are the one who hates all the time, calls for bombs and asskicks...This is the problem with most discussion one can take a soundbyte about anything and then state a certainty about a situacion or person without really knowing what that person or situacion really is about. Just to clarify. I am not full of hate and anger but at the same time I do believe in punishment for evil doers for the king does not wield the sword in vain. There are proper times and places for law and order. Therefore I believe that murdering thugs who kill innocent people should be brought to justice and tried and c... Good that you clarified this. Therefore I believe that murdering thugs who kill innocent people should be brought to justice and tried and convicted and executed if that is what the law calls for.Are you for death penality? Just a serious question. Very intersting. Are you for death penality?Simple answer Yes. Just two arguments against the dp: - Death is no punishment - If you are Christian yo should believe in God who punishes, because noone has the right to punish one another, accept of God. Even if I'm not christian (I'm a learning buddhist) I read a lot in the bible (I LOVE the sermon on the Mount) and have a lot of conversation with christians and nobody of them is for death penality... It is something like an american phenomenon to me. I can not understand it... What about "turning the other cheek"? One thing I deeply respect and admire. Maybe we just can agree to disagree but I would really appreaciate any discussion about that topic. Apologies to Funana for calling you a he. My bad I should have checked your profile before using the masculine pronoun of he. So please accept my apologies. Will take up the topic of death penalty probably elsewhere this thread does not lend itself to that discussion. But in short let me say this. The death penalty is a legal issue not a Christian issue. The bible also teaches the death penalty as well. The old testament law which was handed down from God included many instances of the death penalty. Therefore as a government it is perfectly legal and permitted to mete out justice via the death penalty. Now as far as I am concerned if you offend me I will forgive you and trust that God ... @ Eaglewings: I've never met the man in person, but I try to read his words at least once every day. If that matters. When you wrote... I SAY BLOW THEM ALL TO HELL!!! Aim the biggest and the baddest gun we got and PULL THE TRIGGER!... let's just say I find that kind of language disturbing, as a Christian. Yes you would find that disturbing. And it was meant to cause a stir because I am just as disturbed by all the American bashing going on because I know these murdering terrorists would do whatever they could to get their hands on a big bomb and blow us away and you are here criticizing me for wanting to fight back. I would be less concerned had I heard the same level of disdain leveled at real evil doers in this world. Me spouting off invectives is mild compared to what real people are doing to innocent men, women and children in real life. You take offense to my words but you take no offense to the actions of evil people. This saddens me and disturbs me and causes my Irish blood to boil. How do you know whether I take offense at what terrorists do or not? If they were here on Clipmarks reading my comments, I'd tell them what I thought of them, too. But they're not. SO what do you think of them ENbar curious minds wish to know? If you were president what would you do about the deaths of innocent Americans on 9-11? How would you handle foreign affairs and matters of state with people who lie to your face and teach their young people to hate you and incite them to murderous rage? I wonder. EW. I am male (the right one on the photo), but I know that the funana is a little bit confusing Back to topic: I think you misunderstood my declaration of belief in Buddha. I do believe in God and pray nearly every day, thanking God for my life. There is no forbidding of believing in God and Jesus Christ for Buddhists, because we accept religions and think that the main task is to do good. It doesnt matter to me if one is christian, jew, hindu or moslem and I deeply believe that one who is a good muslim, christian or whatever is doing good and therefore has a good karma. Weather you call him God, Jahwe or Allah - or "the universe" or "the nothing" (like we do) there is ... I would have like to see Saddam in prison for the rerst of his life! Now he is seen as a martyr for a lot of arabian people, how bad is that? If you were president what would you do about the deaths of innocent Americans on 9-11? How would you handle foreign affairs and matters of state with people who lie to your face and teach their young people to hate you and incite them to murderous rage?The first thing I'd do is try to find out what's really going on and why the situation has gotten as bad as it has. Oh, and I didn't answer the first part of your question ... I think terrorist actions are vile, foul, cowardly, and despicable, and I believe that anyone who murders innocent civilians deserves whatever they get in this life and the next. However, I don't think it does much good to rant about it on a board like this, since none of them are likely to read what i have to say, or to care about it one way or the other. I have spent a lot of time studying the research on terrorism and it is generally known that responding to terror with heightened violence is highly ineffective and usually makes the problem worse. At least, that's the case historically. It is generally known that responding to terror with heightened violence is highly ineffective and usually makes the problem worse. At least, that's the case historically.Right, absolutely right. Enbar, I want to have a couple of drinks with you Prosit! If you were president what would you do about the deaths of innocent Americans on 9-11?I think a good place to start would have been to concentrate more in Afghanistan and pursue Bin Ladin; I was all for that. It doesnt matter to me if one is christian, jew, hindu or muslimGood for you funana. I had the good fortune to have a priest assigned to my parrish who was also a practicing buddist and he was one of the most spiritual men I have ever had the opportunity to have met. The majority of the highjackers of the planes were from Saudi Arabia. None were from Afghanistan. From Wikipedia: "Nineteen Arab men boarded the four planes, five each on American Airlines Flight 11, United Airlines Flight 175 and American Airlines Flight 77, four on United Airlines Flight 93. Fifteen of the attackers were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt, and one from Lebanon." An attack on Saudi Arabia would also get us into deep trouble (especially if we harmed Mecca in the process), but it would have made more sense. Too many people equate Bush bashing with America bashing. I love my country. I have been serving in the military to almost ten years. But make no mistake, I HATE the government. I do not feel that the government represents the principals on which our nation was founded. I believe it is oppressive and anti freedom. I believe it to by tyrannical. The government is supposed to be the SERVANT of the people but Bush is anything but a servant to the people. He has set himself above the people, the Constitution of the United States, and simple morality. Very well put njoelnickson. I couldn't agree more. I'm reading the pros and cons about Bush on this particular discussion, and I find the various points-of-view fascinating. I personally believe that the Bush administration will go down in history as the most treacherous, murderous, unconstitutional and least representative of the American people our country has ever had. I do not believe in the death penalty, but if it had to be carried out in Iraq against the tyrant Saddam Hussein, I really would have liked to see Bush standing right next to him with a rope around his guilty neck. This man with his illegal and immoral war has killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. The deaths Bush has caused are no better than the horrible dea... I have been living in Canada for the past 23 years, The highlight and single positive, non-delusional element of your comment. Please feel free to remain. Hey Godfrey..... There are a lot of people living here in the United States that feel about the same way as Zasel. I would have to say that I'm one of them. I guess for half the population in the U.S. that feel the same about the current administration, you will probably use the standard....."if you don't like it get the fuck out!" statement of the Bush loyalists. But, as a patriot, I'm gonna stick around, and try to help save what is left of our Constitution and our way of life as a free nation. but what truly embarrasses and angers me is the current administrationYes it was easy to respect a leader who had sex under the desk as he talked to heads of state. Of course we must not talk about ones sexual deviancy or moral debravity because that well does not fit the template. To be embarressed by a President who says what he means and means what he says as opposed to one who lied under oath and was too busy with his "PERSONAL LIFE" as you supporters would have us believe to be concerned about the country's well being. I am only too sorry that our Supr... I really didn't want to come to this thread again cause...well, just because. Eagle...it's not going to do any good to try and make your points. *Everyone's* minds are made up. Everyone has chosen their stance. Americans calling each other names doesn't help. No ones opinions are going to change. That being said, I followed the 2000 re-counts very closely. I live in the Capital which is not very friendly to conservatives. We were in the midst of all that political jockeying. AND I remember the Gore people desperate to prevent the overseas military vote from being counted. That did it for me. Check out those chads, examine them, try to mystically determine which way they hung...but... I just had to vent and this frenchie helped me vent and I feel much better for it. I think perhaps it is time to give this country an enema. Could eliminate alot of shit and we would all be healthier for it. Wow, that's one of the most venomous, angry, and brutal remarks I've seen from you yet, EW. Yikes. I think perhaps it is time to give this country an enema.Oh, it's coming! You just wait. For the record I am not wishing it, but it is coming. I believe it's coming also; but EW...it doesn't help by being crude or vulgar. The reality will be brutal enough if our Country continues to be divided and crumbling from within. I admire the President because I sincerely believe he wants to protect US citizens from those who want to destroy us; that's his job. Is he doing everything the way *I* would want? Of course not; but I'm certain he has more information and is carrying a more heavy burden than any of us might know about. HEHEH you guys take me way too seriously! I sometimes emote for effect. Sometimes one has got to shock and awe to get a response. I guess this was more shocking then awe inspiring but alas it did accomplish a purpose for which I will apologize to those who can not stomach frank and open discussion. George "the bungler" Bush a hero? For what? Driving the car of the cliff even though the chasm could be seen from miles away and alternate routes were available? W's time in the office, at the expense of democracy and the Constitution, will share the table with the others who are regularly considered for title of worst president ever. Lesson that should be learned is: "Guy I would most like to drink beer with" is a sorry excuse for casting your ballot. |
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