Are you saying the if the school doesn't teach 4 year old kids one extreme then they must be teaching the other? That seems a little too black and white to me. I am not advocating an enviromonment that discriminates against gays and lesbians! There is a huge line that serperates teaching a kid, a 4 year old, about homosexuality and teaching discrimination!

My tax dollars should not go to a group therapy setion diguissed as learning in school! I'm sorry for your pain, but go somewhere else if it bothers you that much. If you had 4 year olds teasing you, I invite the discussion that, that kids parents were probably putting that in his mouth and not the school. I know my 4 year o...

Are you saying the if the school doesn't teach 4 year old kids one extreme then they must be teaching the other? That seems a little too black and white to me. I am not advocating an enviromonment that discriminates against gays and lesbians! There is a huge line that serperates teaching a kid, a 4 year old, about homosexuality and teaching discrimination!

My tax dollars should not go to a group therapy setion diguissed as learning in school! I'm sorry for your pain, but go somewhere else if it bothers you that much. If you had 4 year olds teasing you, I invite the discussion that, that kids parents were probably putting that in his mouth and not the school. I know my 4 year old wouldn't know what a homosexual was near enough to tease about it! That would require an intemate knowlegde on how things "normally" work.

Again, MY solution, is school choice. Teach whatever you want at your school..... my kid will be busy learning important things.Stop being so offended by everything.

Thanks thorne. You have shown the point I made again!

(Quote from my previous post.... text editor not working)
"Are you saying the if the school doesn't teach 4 year old kids one extreme then they must be teaching the other? That seems a little too black and white to me. I am not advocating an enviromonment that discriminates against gays and lesbians! There is a huge line that serperates teaching a kid, a 4 year old, about homosexuality and teaching discrimination!"
(End quote)

You just said that if we don't pander to everyone, we're teaching to discriminate, hate, and be bigots? I don't condone having a class called, "Go skin a gay:101"! Your preaching hate, not me. You say if you don't...

Thanks thorne. You have shown the point I made again!

(Quote from my previous post.... text editor not working)
"Are you saying the if the school doesn't teach 4 year old kids one extreme then they must be teaching the other? That seems a little too black and white to me. I am not advocating an enviromonment that discriminates against gays and lesbians! There is a huge line that serperates teaching a kid, a 4 year old, about homosexuality and teaching discrimination!"
(End quote)

You just said that if we don't pander to everyone, we're teaching to discriminate, hate, and be bigots? I don't condone having a class called, "Go skin a gay:101"! Your preaching hate, not me. You say if you don't agree your a hater. That's fine if you wish to think that way. I say, its not the governments role! I don't care what YOU teach, just don't force any parent to agree with you, that's not the American way.

If a kid is teasing another, he should be punished (preferably by the parents) if he continues the school can remove him, but the ethics of this are not to be decided by the government for the parents.

Oh, and if you can't calmly discuss your point without slinging insults.... just calm down.... hold your breath and count to 500.

First of all:

Main Entry: ig·no·rant

Pronunciation: 'ig-n(&r&nt

Function: adjective

1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>
2 : UNAWARE, UNINFORMED
- ig·no·rant·ly adverb
- ig·no·rant·ness noun

The use of this term is not an attack. There are a great many things of which I am ignorant, and most any thinking person will admit the same. It is,...

First of all:

Main Entry: ig·no·rant

Pronunciation: 'ig-n(&r&nt

Function: adjective

1 a : destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society>; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics> b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>
2 : UNAWARE, UNINFORMED
- ig·no·rant·ly adverb
- ig·no·rant·ness noun

The use of this term is not an attack. There are a great many things of which I am ignorant, and most any thinking person will admit the same. It is, as is everything I write, an opinion. In my case it is an opinion I use to err on the side of compassion. I would so much rather believe that a person is uninformed than say, intentionally malicious or hateful. It is my idealism that causes me to hope that if people were informed, it would make a difference.

Second, there is no agenda, or if there is, on my part anyway, it is an agenda of love, acceptance and tolerance.

Some people have an agenda to teach there children NOT to be gay and not to agree with that lifestyle.

The inclusion of same sex couples in childrens literature does not teach children to be gay. It teaches them that there are gay people in the world they live in and that it is normal within societal standards. This can only foster tolerance and remove the fear born of ignorance (as defined above).

If the parents choose to instill beliefs into the children that is their personal right and obligation. If the parents choos to have their children educated in a secular manner, that too is their prerogative, and they should then choose a private school more in line with their belief systems.

3-16-2007 1:48 PMThorne

they should then choose a private school more in line with their belief systems.

Ah, but private schools are expensive. Trust, me I would if I could. I want real school choice. That can be either in the form of:

a.) Choice of which public school I want to send my kid to (since I am paying tax dollars for that pupose) thus forcing the schools to compeat. (Including performance and content)

b.) Move from taxes for public school to tuition based, thus allowing me to personnally take my money to a private school if I choose.

c.) I'm open to suggestions for a c)... but I like a and b.

Some people have an agenda to ...

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3-16-2007 1:48 PMThorne

they should then choose a private school more in line with their belief systems.

Ah, but private schools are expensive. Trust, me I would if I could. I want real school choice. That can be either in the form of:

a.) Choice of which public school I want to send my kid to (since I am paying tax dollars for that pupose) thus forcing the schools to compeat. (Including performance and content)

b.) Move from taxes for public school to tuition based, thus allowing me to personnally take my money to a private school if I choose.

c.) I'm open to suggestions for a c)... but I like a and b.

Some people have an agenda to teach there children NOT to be gay and not to agree with that lifestyle.

True, although that's not my personnal reason for my dislike of this. Its the stripping of parental rights and this "It takes a village" mentality(Thanks Hilary). I

I'm not going to teach my kids not to agree with the lifestyle, although I am not going to teach them its perfectly normal. What I am going to teach them ultimately however, is not the discussion.

By the way, please define the so-called: gay agenda

since none of us queers really know what it is

To be brief and to the point.... its a movement that started as live and let live and a lesson in tolerance. Now however, it has moved from tolerance to Acceptance.

I can tolerate anything. However, I have spoken to many gays that feel the word "tolerate" still imples that they are doing something wrong. I understand this, however, to move from tolerance to acceptance is a huge leap. This move however is the agenda. It might not be yours, but it is the "gay rights" agenda in general.

All I can say it take it slow. People don't change overnight and getting the government to forcefeed this stuff to us will only push people away and make it harder to gain this acceptance.

Thanks for the well thought out reply, Steve27. I'm going to work from the bottom - up. *s*

I think you're pretty close to the mark with your definithion of the "gay agenda" as a bid to move from tolerance to acceptance. I would have to say that tolerance is the lowest expression of what I call "love" (as in "love thy neighbor"), and acceptance would indeed be a huge leap.


I also understand where you're coming from regarding the govt. dictating our choices in educating our children. I am very opposed to prayer in school, and biblical teachings, unless they are included in a sort of "world religion" overview manner without predjudice. And I suppose here's the rub, for me.
I feel tha...

Thanks for the well thought out reply, Steve27. I'm going to work from the bottom - up. *s*

I think you're pretty close to the mark with your definithion of the "gay agenda" as a bid to move from tolerance to acceptance. I would have to say that tolerance is the lowest expression of what I call "love" (as in "love thy neighbor"), and acceptance would indeed be a huge leap.


I also understand where you're coming from regarding the govt. dictating our choices in educating our children. I am very opposed to prayer in school, and biblical teachings, unless they are included in a sort of "world religion" overview manner without predjudice. And I suppose here's the rub, for me.
I feel that most anti-gay sentiment begins as a religious teaching. In my mind, excluding reference to it on that basis violates the separation between church and state, in the same manner as did the huge bruhaha against teaching evolution theory. If we can separate the schools' function from the parents', it would be the difference between presenting information, history, etc. and interpretation of it. If children are encouraged by the parents to discuss their schooling, parents may then add their particular secular or moral lessons to the information.

As to it taking a "Village", my belief is that all children should be educated. Our taxes should go to that purpose. Perhaps "c" would be a tax cut or refund for those who choose to use a private school. That way a portion still goes to education, while a portion is refunded to the private school parent.

violates the separation between church and state

Please lets not go there.... that's another clip somewhere all together.. I could spend quite a while on that one and in fact the very arguement your making.... (Just not for gays, but against lack of religion)

I feel that most anti-gay sentiment begins as a religious teaching.

I wouldn't say most, but deffinately some. No argument there. Some of the most vile remarks about many things come from so-called christians especially. That's not where mine personally comes from. In fact, in general I don't realy disagree with you. It all comes down to what do you believe is the schools role is.

Perhaps "c" wo...

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violates the separation between church and state

Please lets not go there.... that's another clip somewhere all together.. I could spend quite a while on that one and in fact the very arguement your making.... (Just not for gays, but against lack of religion)

I feel that most anti-gay sentiment begins as a religious teaching.

I wouldn't say most, but deffinately some. No argument there. Some of the most vile remarks about many things come from so-called christians especially. That's not where mine personally comes from. In fact, in general I don't realy disagree with you. It all comes down to what do you believe is the schools role is.

Perhaps "c" would be a tax cut or refund for those who choose to use a
private school. That way a portion still goes to education, while a
portion is refunded to the private school parent.

I wouldn't argue with that... although, the fairtax would solve that problem..

www.fairtax.org

I don't have an issue with someone being gay. That's your right as far as I'm concerned. But I do have an issue with the gay community feeling they have the right to force the fact there are gay people in the world to kids that are 4 years old.

As stated above, there's a lot more they should be focusing on in school than this, like reading and writing, and tolerance of people that are different. These are all good things. I just don't want any group to think they should have some exclusive teaching.

I mean, how are the kids going to learn academics if they spend the entire day learning about gay people, and black people, and asian people, and arabs, and jews, and fat people and little ...

I don't have an issue with someone being gay. That's your right as far as I'm concerned. But I do have an issue with the gay community feeling they have the right to force the fact there are gay people in the world to kids that are 4 years old.

As stated above, there's a lot more they should be focusing on in school than this, like reading and writing, and tolerance of people that are different. These are all good things. I just don't want any group to think they should have some exclusive teaching.

I mean, how are the kids going to learn academics if they spend the entire day learning about gay people, and black people, and asian people, and arabs, and jews, and fat people and little people, and people with a club foot, or redheads. Enough already. Teach tolerance and letting people be individuals and to judge everyone as a person. That's good enough.