First, Arifasi, judgment in this context means discernment.

Second, The Word of God impels us to make good judgement. The verses that point to disapproval of judement relate to our inability to condemn. That is the biblical point that this clip affirms. - You cannot tolerate unless you object. Objection is not condemnation.
That is what makes us human and points to our unique nature of free will.

Third, Regarding conversion, give me an example. Even the example atheists like to use, The Crusades, had absolutely not ONE THING to do with converting non-believers. ( Regarding this point, I will not deny there may have been some in history that have practiced forceful zeal. However, this is no...

First, Arifasi, judgment in this context means discernment.

Second, The Word of God impels us to make good judgement. The verses that point to disapproval of judement relate to our inability to condemn. That is the biblical point that this clip affirms. - You cannot tolerate unless you object. Objection is not condemnation.
That is what makes us human and points to our unique nature of free will.

Third, Regarding conversion, give me an example. Even the example atheists like to use, The Crusades, had absolutely not ONE THING to do with converting non-believers. ( Regarding this point, I will not deny there may have been some in history that have practiced forceful zeal. However, this is not a condition of the Christian Faith.) You will not find it supported in ONE word of Christain Theology.

Perhaps you might want to think more deeply about the words you are
using rather than suppose you know what they mean. That is what this
clip was about in terms of tolerance. You could continue this process
on a deeper understanding of the term conversion. If you had an
understanding of Christian theology it might lead to question whether
conversion is possible. In the way you are applying the term,
conversion is not possible. For example, One understanding Christian
theology would dismiss "conversion" as an impossibility.

Yep, "missionaries."

See? Now that is an intolarant and hateful suggestion that is borne of ignorance.


You find it perfectly fine for yourself to have an ...

Perhaps you might want to think more deeply about the words you are
using rather than suppose you know what they mean. That is what this
clip was about in terms of tolerance. You could continue this process
on a deeper understanding of the term conversion. If you had an
understanding of Christian theology it might lead to question whether
conversion is possible. In the way you are applying the term,
conversion is not possible. For example, One understanding Christian
theology would dismiss "conversion" as an impossibility.

Yep, "missionaries."

See? Now that is an intolarant and hateful suggestion that is borne of ignorance.


You find it perfectly fine for yourself to have an opinion and demand others live by it as in your initial comment. However, when you project your uneducated and subjective idea onto the actions of missionaries you are revealing that you are not a tolerant person. You are revealing a subjective bigotry.

I am sorry, boniface. I just want to make it clear that missionaries do not "convert". Christians recognize that it is not in our hands to convert. I am just trying to set the point straight in that regard.

Your initial comment was more than just an opinion. You made your comment as a statement of fact. And I wanted to restate the point of the clip which your comment suggests that you missed, namely that "You cannot be tolerant of something unless you object to it".

I would actually be very interested to hear comments along the lines of the quote above than expressions of intolerance on a clip about tolerance. And I don't mean to be reading too much into your comment, I would just...

I am sorry, boniface. I just want to make it clear that missionaries do not "convert". Christians recognize that it is not in our hands to convert. I am just trying to set the point straight in that regard.

Your initial comment was more than just an opinion. You made your comment as a statement of fact. And I wanted to restate the point of the clip which your comment suggests that you missed, namely that "You cannot be tolerant of something unless you object to it".

I would actually be very interested to hear comments along the lines of the quote above than expressions of intolerance on a clip about tolerance. And I don't mean to be reading too much into your comment, I would just like honest questions and skeptical dialogue as opposed to the cynicism that is so ubiqitous at Clipmarks.

@willhelm

"You cannot be tolerant of something unless you object to it".

I fully agree with this statement. I don't think I ever said different. What I did say, is that Christians and Muslims find my faith objectionable. I know because they have point blank told me that my God is an abomination in the sight of their God and I just wished for some tolerance on that account.

Now I did say that these two religions attempt to convert the, in their words, "non-believers." I'm afraid that on this point we will just have to disagree. I just did a search for "purpose of missionaries" on Google and Christian organizations that have written out their purpose for their miss...

@willhelm

"You cannot be tolerant of something unless you object to it".

I fully agree with this statement. I don't think I ever said different. What I did say, is that Christians and Muslims find my faith objectionable. I know because they have point blank told me that my God is an abomination in the sight of their God and I just wished for some tolerance on that account.

Now I did say that these two religions attempt to convert the, in their words, "non-believers." I'm afraid that on this point we will just have to disagree. I just did a search for "purpose of missionaries" on Google and Christian organizations that have written out their purpose for their missions specify "to convert." Sorry, that's what Christians have said about their own efforts.

I fully agree with this statement. I don't think I ever said different.
What I did say, is that Christians and Muslims find my faith
objectionable. I know because they have point blank told me that my God
is an abomination in the sight of their God and I just wished for some
tolerance on that account.

But how is their (Christians) statement in any way intolorerant. It is no more intolerant of them to believe what they believe than it is for you to believe what you believe (that they should not hold an opinion about your faiht). The only intolerance I see is YOUR intolerance of the fact that Christians have an opinion about your faith, express it, and you attempt to have them...

I fully agree with this statement. I don't think I ever said different.
What I did say, is that Christians and Muslims find my faith
objectionable. I know because they have point blank told me that my God
is an abomination in the sight of their God and I just wished for some
tolerance on that account.

But how is their (Christians) statement in any way intolorerant. It is no more intolerant of them to believe what they believe than it is for you to believe what you believe (that they should not hold an opinion about your faiht). The only intolerance I see is YOUR intolerance of the fact that Christians have an opinion about your faith, express it, and you attempt to have them quieted by your misuse of the term 'tolerance'.

The opinion that "your god is an abomination" is not intolerant. It is also NOT intolerant to find your faith objectionable.
You obviously find objection to Christianity or you would no doubt be a Christain.
There is nothing wrong with anyone objecting to your faith, or mine. That does not imply intolerance. It would not prevent me from being your friend, living next to you, having dinner with you, helping you if you were sick, standing up for your rights to practice whatever faith you choose, and fighting for your rights in war.

Regarding your view of conversion, we should just end that discussion because it is clear you have a wrong view of the term as it applies to Christianity. Christians do more good around the World than any group or Country. I doubt we would stop in the name of the intolerance at the understanding the concept of conversion.

Let me ask you this. How faithful are you about the redemptive qualities of your faith that it would not lead you to be a servant to the world representing that faith. I would not consider your practice an attempt at conversion. I would consider it a practice of faith.

Great, more wordplay about "tolerance" so that some Christian nutjob can continue to criticize people who are different from him.

wilhelm and boniface, your discussion seems to be stalled by this same confused definition of "tolerance" the author the clipped article is using, rather than disagreement over conversion. Just an outsider's view.

As for this:
"The opinion that "your god is an abomination" is not intolerant. It is also NOT intolerant to find your faith objectionable.
You obviously find objection to Christianity or you would no doubt be a Christain.
There is nothing wrong with anyone objecting to your faith, or mine. That does not imply intolerance. It would not prevent me from b...

Great, more wordplay about "tolerance" so that some Christian nutjob can continue to criticize people who are different from him.

wilhelm and boniface, your discussion seems to be stalled by this same confused definition of "tolerance" the author the clipped article is using, rather than disagreement over conversion. Just an outsider's view.

As for this:
"The opinion that "your god is an abomination" is not intolerant. It is also NOT intolerant to find your faith objectionable.
You obviously find objection to Christianity or you would no doubt be a Christain.
There is nothing wrong with anyone objecting to your faith, or mine. That does not imply intolerance. It would not prevent me from being your friend, living next to you, having dinner with you, helping you if you were sick, standing up for your rights to practice whatever faith you choose, and fighting for your rights in war."
Often one's negative opinion of a religion DOES translate into intolerance. I have met people who would not be friends with, have dinner with, or help a Muslim, Jew, or Pagan, simply because they were "sinners." Intolerance on that level occurs whenever zealotry does, even zealotry about politics or sports. And, one does not have to object to Christianity to be of a different religion. That implies that everyone is naturally a Christian unless they decide to hate it.

And, how is citing missionaries as an example of conversion tactics intolerant and hateful? Throughout history, missionaries have certainly done good works, but they have also destroyed cultures in the interest of Christianizing indigenous peoples. Should I, or anyone, be tolerant of that? Read Joe Kane's "Savages" and get back to me. Besides, there are dozens of Biblical references to conversion efforts and instructions to convert people. I don't have time to find them all, but as someone who's had them shoved at me along with conversion attempts, I assure you there are verses evangelists use for this purpose.