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wildcatfollowshare
12-7-2007 6:23 AM712 views
14 Comments   | Add a Comment
12-7-2007 8:05 AM
ouyangwulong
The confusion about all this may lie in the fact that "Science" and "Religion" are social organizations, while being "scientific" or having "faith" are characteristics of human beings.

So murky are these traits we are often unaware of where we personally fall on this spectrum, let alone having the ability to understand them in others.

For some scientists, faith is no doubt the primary basis for their understanding of science, but not all. A scientific person can also have religion (such as, I would like to think, myself).

Science is not religion, and never has been. What is going on between these two factions? I believe some in religion fear science will lead us away from "God." (Which do...
12-7-2007 10:28 AM
abailart
If you take a very sharp focus on, say, Augustine and Aquinas, it would illuminate the similarity of uses of human reason to science (knowledge) and theology. Of course, it would be a further step to claim, as can be claimed, that science (as we usually mean it) is a branch of a larger knowledge (and a mischievous further step would make that second science a substrate or attribute of omnisience) - a process somewhat analogous to claims that logic rather than being a branch of philosophy, philosophy is a branch of logic. And remember that the sense of 'revelation' implicit in the Graeco-Hebrew tradition involves mightily the sense that pure intellectual contemplation is itself not a way to b...
12-7-2007 12:36 PM
vickybaranwal
science and religion are two different stream of discussion.If somebody want to make a relation between the two he should go for 'science of religion'.........
'religion of science' don't make a sense.
12-7-2007 1:30 PM
abailart
'faith in science' makes sense.
12-7-2007 3:45 PM
tirhkahthawla
" Religion without science is faith and science without religion is fake."
12-7-2007 5:01 PM
rfnajera
Yawn. This is old news... One side says they're right, the other side says, "No, you antiquated fool, we're right!" And we go around and around and around.
12-8-2007 7:39 AM
Antara
Sam Harris wrote a great piece in response to Davies.
:

I have long thought that someone should perpetrate a Sokal-style hoax
on the New York Times opinion page—a page which has become, under the
careful stewardship of David Shipley, a stronghold of pseudoscience,
preening relativism, and religious apology. Paul C. Davies’ recent op-ed,
“Taking Science on Faith,” would have been a magnificent hoax text, and
I am genuinely ashamed that I wasn’t clever enough to write it myself.
By equivocating on the meaning of the term “faith,” Davies manages to
obliterate every useful distinction between scientific empiricism and
intellectual honesty on the one hand and religious superstition and
se...
12-8-2007 9:09 AM
wildcat
Sam Harris rocks
12-8-2007 10:20 AM
invictus
There is science and scientific view as idealized and desired to be; and there is "established science" presented by an international "orthodox minded" cast I usually call "the scientific bureucracy". While the first has and should have nothing to do with "belief" or "faith", the latter is based upon some kind of "initiate system" and (according to my opinion) it keeps and feeds a different kind of faith internally.

An orderly and harmonius universe? Say hello to Isaac Newton
12-8-2007 10:37 AM
ouyangwulong
But still, I think this discussion is overlooking the role that the individual perspective plays in all this. Some people have an inherently "religious" perspective, while others have an inherently "scientific" one.

"Religious" and "Scientific" people can practice both science and religion. Thus you find both religious scientists, who take science as dogma, or alternately predicated on a certain amount of unverifiable knowledge.

You can also find scientific-minded practitioners among organized religion, which has been of increasing interest to His Holiness the Dali Lama.

But it's not just a Buddhist phenomenon, though, consider Don Cupitt, the fascinating author and atheistic Episcopal Deacon behind the "Sea of Faith" movement.
12-8-2007 11:24 AM
abailart
Don Cupitt was the most enthusiastic of reviewers for John Gray's iconoclastic blast at beliefs, 'Straw Dogs'. Atheistic philosophy is welcomed by many 'new' theologians for its burning off concepts, words, dogma, psychologically motivated 'beliefs'. the fetishising of ideas etc.
12-9-2007 2:10 PM
ouyangwulong
Actually, I think Don Cupitt is one of the most exciting and innovative Christian thinkers in the last 100 years. It amazes me that his books, widely read elsewhere, are virtually unavailable in America. I think many Americans dissatisfied with the stalwart rejection of science and bitter polemics of Bush's fundamentalists might be ready for Cupitt's refreshing ideas, but first he's got to find a TV network or publisher ready to handle him. Easier said then done. Gosh, I just love Vertical Integration in the media!
12-9-2007 3:23 PM
abailart
www.sofn.org.uk

Link to Sea of Faith Network. SoF has over the years interesting articles etc about science and faith.
12-9-2007 8:51 PM
thisnamecantbetaken
"Anyone who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the
gates of the temple of science are written the words: 'Ye must have faith.' It is a quality which scientists cannot
dispense with. ... The pure rationalist has no place here." - Max Planck
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