Sample from Site :

It is easy to prove to yourself that God is imaginary. The evidence is all around you. Here are 50 simple proofs:


Watch the video
1. Try praying

2. Statistically analyze prayer

3. Look at all historical gods

4. Think about science

5. Read the Bible

6. Ponder God's plan

7. Understand religious delusion

8. Think about Near Death Experiences

9. Understand ambiguity

10. Watch the offering plate

11. Notice that there is no scientific evidence

12. See the magic

13. Take a look at slavery

14. Examine Jesus' miracles

15. Examine Jesus' resurrection

16. Contemplate the contradictions

17. Think about Leprechauns

...

Sample from Site :

It is easy to prove to yourself that God is imaginary. The evidence is all around you. Here are 50 simple proofs:


Watch the video
1. Try praying

2. Statistically analyze prayer

3. Look at all historical gods

4. Think about science

5. Read the Bible

6. Ponder God's plan

7. Understand religious delusion

8. Think about Near Death Experiences

9. Understand ambiguity

10. Watch the offering plate

11. Notice that there is no scientific evidence

12. See the magic

13. Take a look at slavery

14. Examine Jesus' miracles

15. Examine Jesus' resurrection

16. Contemplate the contradictions

17. Think about Leprechauns

18. Imagine heaven

19. Notice that you ignore Jesus

20. Notice your church

21. Understand Jesus' core message

22. Count all the people God wants to murder

23. Listen to the Doxology

24. Ask why religion causes so many problems

25. Understand evolution and abiogenesis

26. Notice that the Bible's author is not "all-knowing"

27. Think about life after death

28. Notice how many gods you reject

29. Think about communion

30. Examine God's sexism

31. Understand that religion is superstition

32. Talk to a theologian

33. Contemplate the crucifixion

34. Examine your health insurance policy

35. Notice Jesus' myopia

36. Realize that God is impossible

37. Think about DNA

38. Contemplate the divorce rate among Christians

39. Realize that Jesus was a jerk

40. Understand Christian motivations

41. Flip a coin

42. Listen when "God talks"

43. Realize that a "hidden God" is impossible

44. Think about a Christian housewife

45. Consider Noah's Ark

46. Ponder Pascal's Wager

47. Contemplate Creation

48. Compare prayer to a lucky horseshoe

49. Look at who speaks for God

50. Ask Jesus to appear

Join us

Spread the word

i know i have used it b4 but i think that in this context it is worthwhile look at it thoroughly once more:

* I don't try to
imagine a personal God; it suffices to
stand in awe at the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to
appreciate it. Albert Einstein



*
I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is somewhat new kind of religion.


I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be
understood as anthropomorphic.

[i]
What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only
very imperfectly, and th[b]...

i know i have used it b4 but i think that in this context it is worthwhile look at it thoroughly once more:

* I don't try to
imagine a personal God; it suffices to
stand in awe at the structure of the world, insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to
appreciate it. Albert Einstein



*
I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is somewhat new kind of religion.


I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be
understood as anthropomorphic.


What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only
very imperfectly, and that must fill


a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious
feeling that nothing to do with mysticism. Albert Einstein

there is only one unforgivable sin

Assuming you are referring to Mark 3: 22-30 I wonder if you even know what that means? I have met very few "christians" that do.

"I deny the Holy spirit. It does not exist"

Did I just commit the unforgivable sin? I'm really interested in your response to this.

As to the carnage in the bible, well,I haven't an answer for that,

Of course you don't. That's why believers skim over that and blithely continue to spout their same "god is unconditional love and all loving" nonsense. It's called "cherry picking". Everyone adapts a version of god that they become comfortable with and just deny anyone that points out the faults of that ...

there is only one unforgivable sin

Assuming you are referring to Mark 3: 22-30 I wonder if you even know what that means? I have met very few "christians" that do.

"I deny the Holy spirit. It does not exist"

Did I just commit the unforgivable sin? I'm really interested in your response to this.

As to the carnage in the bible, well,I haven't an answer for that,

Of course you don't. That's why believers skim over that and blithely continue to spout their same "god is unconditional love and all loving" nonsense. It's called "cherry picking". Everyone adapts a version of god that they become comfortable with and just deny anyone that points out the faults of that belief.

Check out Malachi 1:2-3 and Romans 9:9-13

Would enduring torture,being hung on a cross and spending three days in hell be enough?Someone did it so you could live forever. Do you think he might have loved you a little?

Oh give me a break. How is it a sacrifice if he is a god? What exactly did he sacrifice? As a fellow clipper (Aces Lucky) once pointed out

How does he killing himself (or needing to be killed) "improve" my perfection? [ Killing the innocent to atone the guilty is immoral and barbaric. A god would know this. The god of the old testament did not.

So he sacrificed himself to himself in order to appease himself so that he could forgive sins that he himself put into play?

When do you start to wonder at how ridiculous this whole thing is? I can sure see why faith is so important in a system like this!

A house can not stand divided,easy enough to understand....They blasphemed by saying he had an unclean spirit..verse 30..he had the HS in him....The Scribes, claiming to be of the house of God, want to cast out one who is also of God..............Romans 9 is a demonstration to the Jews that they are not the only ones that can be saved.....Malachi, I am not too clear about....If you can convince someone to believe, as you say, that the HS does not exist, then I think you will fry for that. .....He wasn't a sacrifice for just the sins he put into play,,but all the sins of those who love him...Read what Jesus said from Matthew on,,it explains alot....I didn't use the word"unconditional"...,,,...

A house can not stand divided,easy enough to understand....They blasphemed by saying he had an unclean spirit..verse 30..he had the HS in him....The Scribes, claiming to be of the house of God, want to cast out one who is also of God..............Romans 9 is a demonstration to the Jews that they are not the only ones that can be saved.....Malachi, I am not too clear about....If you can convince someone to believe, as you say, that the HS does not exist, then I think you will fry for that. .....He wasn't a sacrifice for just the sins he put into play,,but all the sins of those who love him...Read what Jesus said from Matthew on,,it explains alot....I didn't use the word"unconditional"...,,,The old sacrifices were imperfect yet man defiled them, which made God mad..... Every one has to die,,,the judgement is later. We don't know how he will judge...What difference does it make how you die anyway?..Those who did not "hear" the true gospel(not a false one),in their lifetime, will not be judged as harshly, I'd say, as those who heard it and turned away from it.....Those who hear it are those who's ears he opens to hear it,no one else...So,,if you want to hear it,,you'd better start asking him to reveal it to you...Can man know more than God?Knowledge is a creation of God, so,no.....The evidence of God is revealed in the things he created....Sloooooow down,,take a look at nature, spend some time alone observing it. See what conclusions you come to.

Ouch, the writing style ... I can see the headache I'm in for. Can you clean up your pros a bit for easier reading?

I didn't use the word"unconditional"

I didn't say that you did. If you look at my response again the quote indicates "tidbit2 says".

If you can convince someone to believe, as you say, that the HS does not exist, then I think you will fry for that

Since you didn't come right out and answer my question, I'll have to assume that you agreed that making the statement construes an unpardonable sin. No. There is actually no unforgivable sin.

First, to say there is an unpardonable sin restricts god, which if you ask any believer they will tell you noth...

Ouch, the writing style ... I can see the headache I'm in for. Can you clean up your pros a bit for easier reading?

I didn't use the word"unconditional"

I didn't say that you did. If you look at my response again the quote indicates "tidbit2 says".

If you can convince someone to believe, as you say, that the HS does not exist, then I think you will fry for that

Since you didn't come right out and answer my question, I'll have to assume that you agreed that making the statement construes an unpardonable sin. No. There is actually no unforgivable sin.

First, to say there is an unpardonable sin restricts god, which if you ask any believer they will tell you nothing restricts god. If he is omnipotent. Can you imagine god wanting someone into heaven and St. Peter saying "Sorry god, can't let you have this one."

Second, we are told over and over that one only seek salvation and accept Jesus and you get your pass. If you blaspheme against the HS and then later repent then you are forgiven.

Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus…”

So this is a prime example where the bible contradicts itself. It declares there is an unpardonable sin, but there is other scripture that contradicts that.

Basically this "unforgivable sin" comes into play ONLY if someone dies before they repent - which is the same penalty for ALL sins.

Can man know more than God?

Can man know more than Mickey Mouse, Popeye, Superman, or The Power Puff Girls? They are just as fictional as the god your worship.
[quoteThe evidence of God is revealed in the things he created If you'd like to pursue this then I will be happy to show you how incompetent your god really is.

Sloooooow down,,take a look at nature, spend some time alone observing it

Ironic. I do watch nature. That's why I do not believe in the petulant tiny god you worship. I'm not restricted to bronze age ideas.

@katsteevns

Your answer seems very typical of believers who are afraid to actually look at the world around them. You are locked in your bubble of belief and refuse to accept that the comfortable idea of god you have may be wrong. This is why we see ridiculous comments like

"Logic isn't going to help you figure it out"
"You will never weaken my faith"
"God works in mysterious ways"
"God cannot be tested"

I only quote katsteevns in the first one, but the rest are common quotes by believers trying to defend their faith. The thing here is to recognize the surrendering of rational thought. When faced with contradiction to their beliefs the knee jerk reaction of believers is to jam their fing...

@katsteevns

Your answer seems very typical of believers who are afraid to actually look at the world around them. You are locked in your bubble of belief and refuse to accept that the comfortable idea of god you have may be wrong. This is why we see ridiculous comments like

"Logic isn't going to help you figure it out"
"You will never weaken my faith"
"God works in mysterious ways"
"God cannot be tested"

I only quote katsteevns in the first one, but the rest are common quotes by believers trying to defend their faith. The thing here is to recognize the surrendering of rational thought. When faced with contradiction to their beliefs the knee jerk reaction of believers is to jam their fingers in there ear and scream "LA LA LA LA LA". They obtain a level of intellectual dishonesty that is quite frightening.

See how kats tries to divert the discussion away from the points I made? He can't defend against the inescapable fact that his belief is contradictory towards his own god! Instead he starts spouting scripture.

I'll answer the desperate attempt to scripture me off.

Ephesians states quite clearly "being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them". My disbelief is not due to ignorance. My disbelief is a result of the knowledge and understanding that I have acquired. You, on the other hand, bask in ignorance, rejecting logic and rational thought in order to maintain your belief. I do not believe because I do not understand, but because I DO understand.

This passage speaks of blindness, but who is truly blind? Who refuses to acknowledge the ignorance of their very own belief and instead turns to blind faith and refusal of contemplation.

kat, no one can help you if you live a life that forces what you see to fulfill what you believe. I suggest you actually read the article linked to in this clip. You might fill some of that ignorance you willfully protect with thoughts of god.

Surrendering rational thought in the case I am putting to you IS what I am suggesting!...I am not asking you to give yourself over to the Christians so they can have their way with you.I am not asking you to go to church or participate in any of their rituals....It is suppose to be a relationship between you and him, as it is written,secret or open to others as your growth permits. FORGET about the damn Christians and read the Gospels!!!Hello? ,,you reading me clear,over?10/4,over.did you receive my transmission?,over.ggrrrrr!!.....There are alot of false gospels out there including the church that claims tobe the true church and all of its denominations that I have encountered....You prob...

Surrendering rational thought in the case I am putting to you IS what I am suggesting!...I am not asking you to give yourself over to the Christians so they can have their way with you.I am not asking you to go to church or participate in any of their rituals....It is suppose to be a relationship between you and him, as it is written,secret or open to others as your growth permits. FORGET about the damn Christians and read the Gospels!!!Hello? ,,you reading me clear,over?10/4,over.did you receive my transmission?,over.ggrrrrr!!.....There are alot of false gospels out there including the church that claims tobe the true church and all of its denominations that I have encountered....You probably have very good reason for your Christian -bashing,but see that the false gospels are DESIGNED to turn you away from the truth!..My philosophy is to find the highest ideal that man can attain to and give myself over to it...I found that in the Word,in Jesus, in his teachings,End of story....Show me a better life than that and I will follow it...ok i will read the article too..

Where do you suppose the Gospels came from? Jesus? No. People who spent time with Jesus? Ah.. no. People who were close to Jesus? No. People who heard about Jesus and then wrote about him before it faded in memory or grew in exaggeration? NO. Maybe its a written account of the notes taken during the time of Jesus? Still NO.

Are there any contradictions in the New Testament? Are there any stories of the New Testament that have been proven to be unreliable or blatantly false? Your gospels were put together by a group of priests in the Catholic faith and they LEFT BOOKS OUT that didn't fit their dogma. Talk about reading it clear, getting the 10/4 and recieving the transmission. Take off you f...

Where do you suppose the Gospels came from? Jesus? No. People who spent time with Jesus? Ah.. no. People who were close to Jesus? No. People who heard about Jesus and then wrote about him before it faded in memory or grew in exaggeration? NO. Maybe its a written account of the notes taken during the time of Jesus? Still NO.

Are there any contradictions in the New Testament? Are there any stories of the New Testament that have been proven to be unreliable or blatantly false? Your gospels were put together by a group of priests in the Catholic faith and they LEFT BOOKS OUT that didn't fit their dogma. Talk about reading it clear, getting the 10/4 and recieving the transmission. Take off you foil hat.

Your "personal Jesus" is nothing more than any other religion out there. It's cherry picked favorites that you *think* would be good attributes to him. The book you base him off is fraudulent. Your belief in Jesus is no more substantial than a child's belief in Santa. They believe because they were tricked into believing. But at least they get over Santa when the truth is pointed out.

You arent' bringing anything to this table other than your emotional feelings on what you want Jesus to be. Me, I can point at historical proof, the obvious alterations and falsification in the bible, common sense, logic, and a huge question if Jesus was even a man or a collaboration of stories going around at the time similar to the tales of King Aurthur.

And rather than harp on me "just not getting it" why don't you answer the points I've previously made. Unless you can't so your only resort is to blow hot air?

Part I

Unfortunately I need you to excorcise that grey muscle again, kat. The logical part. Let's think about what you are implying : "Without god to judge us and an afterlife to reward us or punish us, what purpose can life possibly hold for us? What encouragement is there to stop people from being selfish psychopathic killers?"

My first question is straight forward. Do you have the urge to kill people right now? Do you have this hidden urge to slit a babies throat and drink its blood? Are you just one prayer away from massacring an entire town, just for fun?

If this urge is so predominant in human nature then surely you can feel them? Surely the bonds of restraint are being held back on...

Part I

Unfortunately I need you to excorcise that grey muscle again, kat. The logical part. Let's think about what you are implying : "Without god to judge us and an afterlife to reward us or punish us, what purpose can life possibly hold for us? What encouragement is there to stop people from being selfish psychopathic killers?"

My first question is straight forward. Do you have the urge to kill people right now? Do you have this hidden urge to slit a babies throat and drink its blood? Are you just one prayer away from massacring an entire town, just for fun?

If this urge is so predominant in human nature then surely you can feel them? Surely the bonds of restraint are being held back only by your fear of god?

What an entirely moronic statement brimming with arogance and self importance. "The world will fall apart without the guidance of our belief.". Give me a break.

How does that explain Abraham Lincoln? He was an athiest. Albert Einstien? Aldous Huxley, Andrew Carnegie, Isaac Asimov, Ernest Hemingway, Arthur C. Clark, Benjamin Franklin, Carl Sagan, George Bernard Shaw, etc. Link Source

These are all people who have provided great boons to mankind, who have helped to usher in a new age of human respect and tollerance. People who have stood out from the rest of mankind preoccupation with a religion that basically glorifies death.

Part II

That list of atheists alone should show you that you have created a false understanding of reality in non belief. The idea that morals only come from god is an old argument that has been disproven over and over. Please read this article : LINK

The Article said:

This foundation belief of Bible fundamentalism is of course erroneous. It is even contradicted by the Bible itself. In Romans 2:14, the Apostle Paul said that the Gentiles, who had not received the law [of Moses] or, in other words, a revelation from God, had nevertheless sometimes done "by nature the things of the law" and were therefore "a law unto themsel...

Part II

That list of atheists alone should show you that you have created a false understanding of reality in non belief. The idea that morals only come from god is an old argument that has been disproven over and over. Please read this article : LINK

The Article said:

This foundation belief of Bible fundamentalism is of course erroneous. It is even contradicted by the Bible itself. In Romans 2:14, the Apostle Paul said that the Gentiles, who had not received the law [of Moses] or, in other words, a revelation from God, had nevertheless sometimes done "by nature the things of the law" and were therefore "a law unto themselves." If this doesn't mean that Paul believed that the Gentiles who had no divine revelation had discovered morality on their own, then pray tell what does it mean?

Now, just for a moment, assume that your idea of god is true. You live a good life, you are good in god's eyes and when you die god lets you into heaven. Then what? Have you ever contemplated eternity glorifying god? Of getting everything you want (which in its own little way leads to irrationality) and just spending all your time praising and glorifying god? With eternity in the mix ... it starts to sound a little, well, boring. It also sounds like god is a bit vain ... so many people to tell him how great he is? How happy they are to serve him. Is that what your true purpose is? I mean, really. When does it go from rightous glorification to ridiculous egotism?

Ironicaly, the laws of Moses existed before the story of Moses. You should look into the Codes of Hammarabi some time. YOu'll find that much of what god claims as inspirational laws were just stolen from someone else. Hammurabi recieved his codes from his god, Shamash, the same as Moses. In fact, you can find many parallels between the two figures of Hammurabi and Moses.

Part III

Getting back to "what's the point" - the point is indeed about us - but that is the same "point" of believing in god. Religion is about us finding a supernatural salvation. It's about having a goal and trying to meet it, man made as it is.

Take out the mythology and what are we left with? We are left with human nature. The desire to reproduce, the desire to improve our lives, the desire to help our neighbors and strengthen our societies and the overwhelming desire to learn and understand that which we do not know.

We each have a finite life. Because of the love that I have for my children and my concern for the future world that they and their children will have I am motivated to...

Part III

Getting back to "what's the point" - the point is indeed about us - but that is the same "point" of believing in god. Religion is about us finding a supernatural salvation. It's about having a goal and trying to meet it, man made as it is.

Take out the mythology and what are we left with? We are left with human nature. The desire to reproduce, the desire to improve our lives, the desire to help our neighbors and strengthen our societies and the overwhelming desire to learn and understand that which we do not know.

We each have a finite life. Because of the love that I have for my children and my concern for the future world that they and their children will have I am motivated to do as much as I can to ensure their future while I have life. I'm not a leader, I'm not a mover and a shaker, but I am an educator of my children and I will not short them so that they are stunted by mythology when reality has so much more to offer.

And the best way to do that is to help your fellows and form a strong society so that we can each have identity within it. So that by that society we protect ourselves, improve ourselves, and challenge ourselves.

At the root of your beliefs? Pass the time till this life is over and then get into heaven; What a wasted life. Help others only because it improves your standing with your god. How self serving. I help others because I like to do it and I know that a stronger society benifits everyone.

This is getting longer than I wanted. And I know you are going to point out the criminal element of our society. All I can say is look at the statistics of our jailed criminals. How many are believers and how many are atheists?

Humanity does not require a god so put away the mythology. I know you still believe, and you always shall until you become intellectually honest with yourself, gain some courage, and really look at what it is your are embracing.

katsteevns said:

if I thought I would have to do a book report,I would have gone back to school first.!

Ah, that might have solved so much for you.

willhelm said:

Check out the title of the source site. The words are distiguished from one another in a peculiar way.

Typical willhelm. Rather than address anything of substance you find that tackling the title graphic as significant.

Urge to kill people?..I have a conscience.

As does everyone. Your contention is that morals and human empathy requires god (no god no morals) yet here you just contradict yourself by saying conscience is responsible for morality

all those great minds were wasting their time if...

read more»

katsteevns said:

if I thought I would have to do a book report,I would have gone back to school first.!

Ah, that might have solved so much for you.

willhelm said:

Check out the title of the source site. The words are distiguished from one another in a peculiar way.

Typical willhelm. Rather than address anything of substance you find that tackling the title graphic as significant.

Urge to kill people?..I have a conscience.

As does everyone. Your contention is that morals and human empathy requires god (no god no morals) yet here you just contradict yourself by saying conscience is responsible for morality

all those great minds were wasting their time if you ask me

That's what makes you such an idiot. You spite humanity in order to protect your religion.

Bet he never thought we would be massacring hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians to get our hands on the oil

Unlike the millions massacred by the hand of religion right? Hypocrite.

Think outside the box!

Think outside the book1

Think about what a perfect world would be like..the ability to love with no distractions,no obstacles,no pain,no one-up-man-ship,no physical limits,

Will homosexuals be there? How about Muslims? Jews? The Scientologists? Infidels? Or is the club members only?

Wait a minute... I bet the rapists, murderers, child molesters and other monsters of humanity will be allowed in if they say the magic words before they die right? Sounds like your eternity is going to be so fun.

I can't continue this any further with you kats. You cannot provide anything more than statements based on ignorance. Honestly, if you can't provide any argument or evidence to support you claims then I'm wasting my time.

and for wasting my time.....

Typical believer projection. You came to this sight and revealed your astonishing ignorance and couldn't even manage to present anything more than a "I believe in god and nothing you say will change that" mentality. Go away and pray until such a time as you can actually provide something worthy to talk about.

@willhelm

If you are going to join in the conversation then do a bit more than your normal insults and rhetoric. Unless you just want to feel the hero for coming to the rescue of katseeven? He needs it, but posting nothing more than snippy drivel makes you no better than him.

Why don't you try something different and actually speak to the t...

and for wasting my time.....

Typical believer projection. You came to this sight and revealed your astonishing ignorance and couldn't even manage to present anything more than a "I believe in god and nothing you say will change that" mentality. Go away and pray until such a time as you can actually provide something worthy to talk about.

@willhelm

If you are going to join in the conversation then do a bit more than your normal insults and rhetoric. Unless you just want to feel the hero for coming to the rescue of katseeven? He needs it, but posting nothing more than snippy drivel makes you no better than him.

Why don't you try something different and actually speak to the topic rather than flapping your (figurative) gums in the wind.

The challenges of overcoming ignorant perceptions such as these
requires attention elsewhere. It is amazing all the recognition my
absence has recieved.

Oh don't get too excited Will, the reasons for the recognition might not be all that flattering, lol.

As for the "ignorant perception" charge--How can that be? I have a perception of you that is based on evidence...the evidence of your comments and attitude towards some of your fellow clippers. In fact, a very light cruise through some of your comments gave me 3 incidents of namecalling by you (and that was only only in the last month!)
It ain't all bad news - you seem like an ok fellow overall. Interesting even! But since ...

The challenges of overcoming ignorant perceptions such as these
requires attention elsewhere. It is amazing all the recognition my
absence has recieved.

Oh don't get too excited Will, the reasons for the recognition might not be all that flattering, lol.

As for the "ignorant perception" charge--How can that be? I have a perception of you that is based on evidence...the evidence of your comments and attitude towards some of your fellow clippers. In fact, a very light cruise through some of your comments gave me 3 incidents of namecalling by you (and that was only only in the last month!)
It ain't all bad news - you seem like an ok fellow overall. Interesting even! But since you decided to pull yer lil namecally game here on my clip, I was moved to comment.

Maybe ya outta stick to the baby pics (cute kid ) and leave the namecalling to the playground?

Wow, go out for the day and look what happens?

willhelm said:

he challenges of overcoming ignorant perceptions such as these requires attention elsewhere

It's never too long before these fundies start projecting themselves onto others. I guess it sucks not being able to defend their beliefs in any meaningful manner so they resort to just pretending they proved their points and claims just know what it might feel like.

I never made one comment to Oortcloud despite his/her baiting.

Right. the baiting, of course, being that of trying to get you to discuss the topic? Plus, it really makes you look bad when you make a statement that anyone can scroll back and see as fal...

Wow, go out for the day and look what happens?

willhelm said:

he challenges of overcoming ignorant perceptions such as these requires attention elsewhere

It's never too long before these fundies start projecting themselves onto others. I guess it sucks not being able to defend their beliefs in any meaningful manner so they resort to just pretending they proved their points and claims just know what it might feel like.

I never made one comment to Oortcloud despite his/her baiting.

Right. the baiting, of course, being that of trying to get you to discuss the topic? Plus, it really makes you look bad when you make a statement that anyone can scroll back and see as false.

Ah well. I'm done with these morons. There is absolutely nothing provided here on topic with the clip. The best willhelm and katseevns can supply is innuendo and rhetoric. Don't let them drag you down to their mental level Antara. Readers can see exactly what these two have to offer.