So the insurance companies are essentially to be run as non-profit charities. 98% payout indeed. Do you have your own money invested at at 2% return? Of course not - and no business with a government limited return or 2% will get investment nor will it survive in the long run.

So again we have a) irrational hate for capitalism and those actually providing the service b) demand for the impossible (administration of all health care for free) and c) simply insisting that costs will be lowered because, well, its insisted upon.

Failure in California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, imminent failure in Taxachusetts - but yet that whole free health care thing is possible!

Sure - if you want to cut se...

So the insurance companies are essentially to be run as non-profit charities. 98% payout indeed. Do you have your own money invested at at 2% return? Of course not - and no business with a government limited return or 2% will get investment nor will it survive in the long run.

So again we have a) irrational hate for capitalism and those actually providing the service b) demand for the impossible (administration of all health care for free) and c) simply insisting that costs will be lowered because, well, its insisted upon.

Failure in California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, imminent failure in Taxachusetts - but yet that whole free health care thing is possible!

Sure - if you want to cut service for everybody and put a bunch of government toadies in charge of determining whether you are worthy of receiving that operation or shot. Oh, and pretty much shut down 10-20% of current economic activity so the government can give you these benefits. Just look at the California proposal. 6.5% of every business payroll to pay for universal health care wasn't enough.

I'm not sure what you're afraid of, colorado. I lived for 4 years in a country with universal healthcare and the system worked. I personally never waited more than an hour to visit my doctor ( who I chose for myself). I was never denied care. I never talked to a bureaucrat. My (former) mother-in-law had a brain tumor and needed surgery in Budapest. The ambulance ride from her home (3 hours away) was covered. The surgery was covered. Her recuperation in hospital was covered. Her recuperation at home was covered (100% of her pay) and her job was protected.

As someone who has spent time both uninsured and underinsured, I can't tell you the peace of mind I had during my time overse...

I'm not sure what you're afraid of, colorado. I lived for 4 years in a country with universal healthcare and the system worked. I personally never waited more than an hour to visit my doctor ( who I chose for myself). I was never denied care. I never talked to a bureaucrat. My (former) mother-in-law had a brain tumor and needed surgery in Budapest. The ambulance ride from her home (3 hours away) was covered. The surgery was covered. Her recuperation in hospital was covered. Her recuperation at home was covered (100% of her pay) and her job was protected.

As someone who has spent time both uninsured and underinsured, I can't tell you the peace of mind I had during my time overseas. You must know that one third of all personal bankruptcies in this country are caused by medical debt. I think that's a tragedy.

Universal healthcare works. I am a witness.

Exactly the point - TANSAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch). Every one of these schemes that have been pushed in the US (and that have collapsed) have been presented as pie in the sky - everybody will get health care and it will not cost anybody anything. And once actual costs are piled up, nobody is willing to go in front of the American people and truthfully say that you will be giving up an additional 20% of your income for "universal health care".

The UK and most of Europe installed this mess after the end of WWII when costs were tiny and 20% of the people had been killed off. Would Britain today be able to come to its people and justify the huge expense, the waiting lis...

Exactly the point - TANSAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch). Every one of these schemes that have been pushed in the US (and that have collapsed) have been presented as pie in the sky - everybody will get health care and it will not cost anybody anything. And once actual costs are piled up, nobody is willing to go in front of the American people and truthfully say that you will be giving up an additional 20% of your income for "universal health care".

The UK and most of Europe installed this mess after the end of WWII when costs were tiny and 20% of the people had been killed off. Would Britain today be able to come to its people and justify the huge expense, the waiting lists, the gobbeldygook of government that is the NHS?

So "progressive" politicians in the US have to do this by steath. We will just cover children - after all - every child deserves government guaranteed health care. Actually I would say that every child deserves for their parents to take care of them. In cases of real need, charities exist to help. Let me ask? If your free ambulance ride hadn't existed would you have paid for your Mom to be transported? Of course. And why? Well - because its a moral obligation to take care of your own.

Its not the government's job. Now that's a losing argument today - when government is a goodie machine to take money from productive people and give it to those who aren't productive - but you can go through the constitution and probably wouldn't find universal health care anywhere in there.

Nor the word privacy incidentally.

Germany instituted universal healthcare at the end of the nineteenth century. And Britain instituted National Healthcare precisely BECAUSE of the destruction of WWII.

No, universal health care is not in the constitution, and no, colorado, no one has suggested that universal healthcare is "free". Everyone understands that it is paid for through taxes, just like everything else. The "free" part comes in because there are no out of pocket costs. No bill at the end of the day. You pay everyday through your labor at work.

Of course we would have driven Mom to the hospital, but you are isolating one part of her journey from illness back to health and productivity (she's a teacher). Now...

Germany instituted universal healthcare at the end of the nineteenth century. And Britain instituted National Healthcare precisely BECAUSE of the destruction of WWII.

No, universal health care is not in the constitution, and no, colorado, no one has suggested that universal healthcare is "free". Everyone understands that it is paid for through taxes, just like everything else. The "free" part comes in because there are no out of pocket costs. No bill at the end of the day. You pay everyday through your labor at work.

Of course we would have driven Mom to the hospital, but you are isolating one part of her journey from illness back to health and productivity (she's a teacher). Now imagine the whole episode again if it happened in America to you. A brain tumor. Surgery. 6 months off of work. How much would that cost you in healthcare costs and lost wages? Surely 10s of thousands of dollars. You know what it cost our family out of pocket: NOTHING.

Europoe was the most family-friendly place I've ever lived. Not only is healthcare universal, so are daycare, eldercare, and education (including college, grad school, med school). Imagine NO STUDENT LOANS. A woman who had a baby got ONE YEAR off of work PAID.

And don't deny for a second that Americans don't die everyday because they could not afford, say, an operation. Or even cab fare to the emergency room.

Make no mistake, we have a healthcare system for profit in this country, not for people's health (heaven forbid everyone be healthy!) We have the system we do because a few people are making a killing charging us for healthcare and education, driving Americans into debt and bankruptcies. You should be outraged.

As I doubt you are one of the few who makes millions from the healthcare industry, I fail to understand how you could support healthcare for profit. Open your eyes. There IS another way, and it works.