Probably so ratcatcher2, I heard a few protestors were acting up or out, whatever. Personally, I'm disappointed that the catholics couldn't have exercised a little dignity. The biggest conflict there was actually between the catholics and themselves. After all, they were the ones who invited President Obama there and they were the ones who protested. Get it together people. Don't you know what the bible says about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing? Oh, I forgot, Catholics aren't big on the bible. I guess thats why none of them, for that matter, any christians in this country, are familiar with the verse, "Give onto Caesar that which is Caesars and give onto God that whic...

Probably so ratcatcher2, I heard a few protestors were acting up or out, whatever. Personally, I'm disappointed that the catholics couldn't have exercised a little dignity. The biggest conflict there was actually between the catholics and themselves. After all, they were the ones who invited President Obama there and they were the ones who protested. Get it together people. Don't you know what the bible says about the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing? Oh, I forgot, Catholics aren't big on the bible. I guess thats why none of them, for that matter, any christians in this country, are familiar with the verse, "Give onto Caesar that which is Caesars and give onto God that which is Gods" My, my, look at that, separation of church and state right out of the bible.

Efrain Alvarado, No, we don't have to accept all laws as good but we do have to obey them. I can't accept your argument comparing abortion to slavery because we are talking apples and oranges, two totally different things. As for overturning laws, religious organizations should not be even attempting it unless they care to lose their tax exempt status. Otherwise, they are breaking the law (see first sentence).

Now about your second point. By your own admittance, you say that Congress shall not establish a religion. I would say that is even more than a "notion" of separation of Church and State. But for the sake of argument, lets just say that Congress could establish a religion. What ma...

Efrain Alvarado, No, we don't have to accept all laws as good but we do have to obey them. I can't accept your argument comparing abortion to slavery because we are talking apples and oranges, two totally different things. As for overturning laws, religious organizations should not be even attempting it unless they care to lose their tax exempt status. Otherwise, they are breaking the law (see first sentence).

Now about your second point. By your own admittance, you say that Congress shall not establish a religion. I would say that is even more than a "notion" of separation of Church and State. But for the sake of argument, lets just say that Congress could establish a religion. What makes you think it would be the Catholic religion or for that matter any one religion. To pick only one religion would fly in the face of our being a Democracy. So it simply could not be done. Further more, lets suppose that there is no separation of church and state. We'll even let the churches keep there tax exempt status. As I'm sure you're aware, there are hundreds, if not thousands of churches in the United States, all with their own little agendas. How would the government handle all their demands? Who would they listen to first? How could they possibly reconcile giving one thing to one church that runs completely contrary to the beliefs of another.

The best reason of all to keep church and state separate is because, by their very nature, they contradict one another. And here is why. In order for a person to have enough faith to believe in things unseen, he will also have to believe that it was meant for all people, and all leaders of people. To the human brain, that is logical, anything else is not. That makes religion political and any one ruling religion is in contradiction to a government that is not a Theocracy.

"Let us work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions.

Now that sounds like a good idea. Let's see how we do that, oh yeah practice responsible sex and quite playing the harlot. Why should abortion be a means of birth control when other methods are available and actually work and does not require the killing of a child. The best way to limit the number of women seeking abortions is to make it harder to get NOT EASIER. How about this idea. We will allow you to kill the first child but while preforming the abortion we will sterilize you so that you will not have to kill a second child. I wonder how many women will be running to get an abortion if there was a CON...

"Let us work together to reduce the number of women seeking abortions.

Now that sounds like a good idea. Let's see how we do that, oh yeah practice responsible sex and quite playing the harlot. Why should abortion be a means of birth control when other methods are available and actually work and does not require the killing of a child. The best way to limit the number of women seeking abortions is to make it harder to get NOT EASIER. How about this idea. We will allow you to kill the first child but while preforming the abortion we will sterilize you so that you will not have to kill a second child. I wonder how many women will be running to get an abortion if there was a CONSEQUENCE to the mother for killing the child?

Let's
reduce unintended pregnancies.

See above Obama. Seems simple enough if responsible adults would act responsibly instead of selfishly and carelessly. The fact that we KILL so many babies in this country is a sign of FAILURE not success or advancement.

Let's make adoption more available. Let's provide
care and support for women who do carry their child to term,"

Care and support for a woman carrying a child to term is usually called MARRIAGE but we all know what has happened to that idea don't we. Again this is not a WOMAN's rights issue it is an issue of being a RESPONSIBLE adult and thinking about the life of a child over your own selfish sexual indulgences.

I believe in a woman's right to choose. She can choose to say no and not have sex. She can choose to have sex responsibly or she can choose to play the harlot and then should suffer the consequences of that choice.

And know I am not talking rape or incest or any act of sexual violence against a woman's will I am talking about consensual sexual relations between two consenting adults. They should act like adults and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for their actions.

Abortion SHOULD not be a METHOD of birth control! PERIOD.

Why should abortion be a means of birth control when other methods are available and actually work and does not require the killing of a child.

Eaglewings, there is so much in this one sentence. It presumes that females use abortion as an alternative means of birth control. Indeed, as a singular means of birth control. I'm sure you might find the odd female that does as you suggest but to conjecture that this behaviour is the norm is a jump too far. Sometimes too the other methods fail, and what then? "The killing of a child" is a very emotive term that may not help if seeking of a solution.

As a male, I can never have an understanding of the emotions that a female, who goe...

Why should abortion be a means of birth control when other methods are available and actually work and does not require the killing of a child.

Eaglewings, there is so much in this one sentence. It presumes that females use abortion as an alternative means of birth control. Indeed, as a singular means of birth control. I'm sure you might find the odd female that does as you suggest but to conjecture that this behaviour is the norm is a jump too far. Sometimes too the other methods fail, and what then? "The killing of a child" is a very emotive term that may not help if seeking of a solution.

As a male, I can never have an understanding of the emotions that a female, who goes under go an abortion, experiences. Maybe no female, who goes not under go an abortion, can fully understand either. Indeed some unthinking females are even more strident in their criticism than males, but thankfully, the majority do understand.

oh yeah practice responsible sex and quite playing the harlot.

[I feel sure this should read "quit playing the harlot"?!] An emotive word like harlot is unhelpful, unless you'd use that term to describe your mother's or sisters' sex life? Are they harlots for becoming pregnant or just by having sex outside marriage? Don't all males secretly desire that all females - except mothers, sisters and current partners - be harlots, unless the few that are past desiring sex? Isn't it our nature to spread our seed widely? What are we men then - unless you are a celebrant, who may only secretly desire young boys/children?

This is just in response to your first 2 sentences. I'll respond to the rest, if you desire.

I can't accept your argument comparing abortion to slavery because we are talking apples and oranges, two totally different things.

No they are not. They are both issues concerning social justice and the right to liberty and life.

No, we don't have to accept all laws as good but we do have to obey them.

The termination of Jews in Nazi Germany was lawful. A good law abiding citizen would turn in their Jewish neighbor to the authorities because they felt they too had to follow the law. They may not have agreed with Hitler but they did obey the law. I don't buy your statement one bit, talk about sheeple.

But for the sake of argument, lets just say that C...

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I can't accept your argument comparing abortion to slavery because we are talking apples and oranges, two totally different things.

No they are not. They are both issues concerning social justice and the right to liberty and life.

No, we don't have to accept all laws as good but we do have to obey them.

The termination of Jews in Nazi Germany was lawful. A good law abiding citizen would turn in their Jewish neighbor to the authorities because they felt they too had to follow the law. They may not have agreed with Hitler but they did obey the law. I don't buy your statement one bit, talk about sheeple.

But for the sake of argument, lets just say that Congress could establish a religion. What makes you think it would be the Catholic religion or for that matter any one religion.

I don't. I don't think a theocracy is the best fit for any society, Catholic or not. Everyone has a right to religion or not. The abortion issue is not a religious issue necessarily but rather an issue of all humanity. The Declaration of Independence states it beautifully that,

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

I'm sure you might find the odd female that does as you suggest but to conjecture that this behaviour is the norm is a jump too far. Sometimes too the other methods fail, and what then? "The killing of a child" is a very emotive term that may not help if seeking of a solution.

ODD female! Really? There are a great deal of dead babies piling up as medical waste to say it is the ODD female who aborts a child for other than BIRTH CONTROL! Are you trying to imply that the majority of these needless deaths is a result of torn condoms, accidental impregnation, or some other innocent reason? Or do you imply all these women were raped? I think my assessment makes a bit more sense, the...

I'm sure you might find the odd female that does as you suggest but to conjecture that this behaviour is the norm is a jump too far. Sometimes too the other methods fail, and what then? "The killing of a child" is a very emotive term that may not help if seeking of a solution.

ODD female! Really? There are a great deal of dead babies piling up as medical waste to say it is the ODD female who aborts a child for other than BIRTH CONTROL! Are you trying to imply that the majority of these needless deaths is a result of torn condoms, accidental impregnation, or some other innocent reason? Or do you imply all these women were raped? I think my assessment makes a bit more sense, the majority of these abortions could have been prevented if the adults responsible for their creation would have practiced safe sex or better yet practiced abstinence. Abstinence works every time it is tried.

As far as the other methods failing. Well let us get real for a moment shall we. Sex is intended for the procreation of human life. Therefore it should not come as any surprise if a child is produced as a result of a sexual encounter. This would not normally be a problem between MARRIED couples but because we have turned procreation into recreation we are faced with the having to dispose of OUR MISTAKES. This is a stain on humanity and not something that should be encouraged or promoted because it is degrading and demoralizing. We have become a society that has cheapened life and that is sad.

So once again killing a child should not be a method of birth control. Animals eat their own children humanity should not.

As a male, I can never have an understanding of the emotions that a female, who goes under go an abortion, experiences.

As a Christian MALE it would be irresponsible of me to subject a lady I love with the EMOTIONAL Baggage of having to choose to raise a child or kill it. She should never be forced with that decision if I am a loving partner to her. Beside I do not have sex outside of a marriage relationship. Therefore my wife would not have to decide to kill a child because we would want to raise that child as a GIFT from God.

Stop treating women with so much disdain and disrespect that you place her in such a compromising situation. And ladies do yourselves a big favor and...

As a male, I can never have an understanding of the emotions that a female, who goes under go an abortion, experiences.

As a Christian MALE it would be irresponsible of me to subject a lady I love with the EMOTIONAL Baggage of having to choose to raise a child or kill it. She should never be forced with that decision if I am a loving partner to her. Beside I do not have sex outside of a marriage relationship. Therefore my wife would not have to decide to kill a child because we would want to raise that child as a GIFT from God.

Stop treating women with so much disdain and disrespect that you place her in such a compromising situation. And ladies do yourselves a big favor and look for gentlemen who will respect you and want to marry you before bedding you.

An emotive word like harlot is unhelpful, unless you'd use that term to describe your mother's or sisters' sex life? Are they harlots for becoming pregnant or just by having sex outside marriage? Don't all males secretly desire that all females - except mothers, sisters and current partners - be harlots, unless the few that are past desiring sex? Isn't it our nature to spread our seed widely? What are we men then - unless you are a celebrant, who may only secretly desire young boys/children?

And this shows how Neanderthal you are rat. You talk like a woman is nothing more than some masturbatory toy for you to play with and then toss aside when you are through. That is so degra...

An emotive word like harlot is unhelpful, unless you'd use that term to describe your mother's or sisters' sex life? Are they harlots for becoming pregnant or just by having sex outside marriage? Don't all males secretly desire that all females - except mothers, sisters and current partners - be harlots, unless the few that are past desiring sex? Isn't it our nature to spread our seed widely? What are we men then - unless you are a celebrant, who may only secretly desire young boys/children?

And this shows how Neanderthal you are rat. You talk like a woman is nothing more than some masturbatory toy for you to play with and then toss aside when you are through. That is so degrading and yes a guy who goes around having sex with any woman that comes along without a regard to her and her family but like you say wants her to be a harlot is a pig and a perv. That kind of behavior adds to the problem it certainly does not help any. So now I understand why there is such a fight to keep the killing of babies legal. THERE ARE A TON OF PERVS out there who wish to keep inseminating without taking responsibility.

Eaglewings, there is so much in this one sentence. It presumes that females use abortion as an alternative means of birth control. Indeed, as a singular means of birth control. I'm sure you might find the odd female that does as you suggest but to conjecture that this behaviour is the norm is a jump too far. Sometimes too the other methods fail, and what then? "The killing of a child" is a very emotive term that may not help if seeking of a solution.

... was my full sentence and needs to be read and quoted in full to be understood by those who will not see. I'd guessed that I'd had your style from your 'holier than thou' attitude. Your use of 'harlot' was a bit ...

Eaglewings, there is so much in this one sentence. It presumes that females use abortion as an alternative means of birth control. Indeed, as a singular means of birth control. I'm sure you might find the odd female that does as you suggest but to conjecture that this behaviour is the norm is a jump too far. Sometimes too the other methods fail, and what then? "The killing of a child" is a very emotive term that may not help if seeking of a solution.

... was my full sentence and needs to be read and quoted in full to be understood by those who will not see. I'd guessed that I'd had your style from your 'holier than thou' attitude. Your use of 'harlot' was a bit of a give away. Your "Abstinence works every time it is tried" solution reinforces my opinion. Unfortunately us normal morals with healthy sexual desires do not rely on this method that is known along with other celebrants, to produce child abusers - not that I'm saying that you are yet at that stage.

I've only yet taken off one glove but I've no intention of attempting to enlighten that which cannot be saved. I was 20 years awaiting my first born and neither of ever used any form of birth protection. I suspect my life's experience in this matter is superior. I also suspect that any life experience would never change your 'opinions'. Finally my

an emotive word like harlot is unhelpful, unless you'd use that term to describe your mother's or sisters' sex life?

Well, are they harlots too???

Your "Abstinence works every time it is tried" solution reinforces my opinion.

well most of the comments on Clipmarks are just that opinion.And are you saying then that abstinence does not work in preventing child birth? Or are you saying that it is prudish to think that some people may see abstinence as a virtue not a vice? I am not really sure what you are saying actually. EVEN with the whole sentence you did not make much sense. I believe you are attempting to say that the MAJORITY of abortions performed in this country are a result of what FAILED contraception? Why then would a mother want to kill her child unless of course she wants to RID herself of that child?

Unless ...

Your "Abstinence works every time it is tried" solution reinforces my opinion.

well most of the comments on Clipmarks are just that opinion.And are you saying then that abstinence does not work in preventing child birth? Or are you saying that it is prudish to think that some people may see abstinence as a virtue not a vice? I am not really sure what you are saying actually. EVEN with the whole sentence you did not make much sense. I believe you are attempting to say that the MAJORITY of abortions performed in this country are a result of what FAILED contraception? Why then would a mother want to kill her child unless of course she wants to RID herself of that child?

Unless the facts bear out tha the majority of abortions are done for some health reason then the only logical conclusion would be that most are convenience abortions and not health related. In other words the mother just does not want to be "Cursed" with a child to quote OBAMA. I do not see child birth as a curse but I am a child molester I guess according to this comment:

Unfortunately us normal morals with healthy sexual desires do not rely
on this method that is known along with other celebrants, to produce
child abusers - not that I'm saying that you are yet at that stage.

How the hell does abstinence lead to CHILD ABUSE? And when you say NORMAL morals do you mean that killing children is a morally justified position and MOST normal people agree? Well I do not and will not ever believe that killing a child is morally right. As far as healthy sexual desires are concerned even animals have healthy sexual desires. Responsible adults though handle those desires responsibly and would not have to resort to the barbarism of baby killing. IMO AND this is my clip so I have a right to MY opinion just like you do.

I've only yet taken off one glove but I've no intention of attempting to enlighten that which cannot be saved. I was 20 years awaiting my first born and neither of ever used any form of birth protection. I suspect my life's experience in this matter is superior

Well bring it on I can take it. Not sure you can though. But we will see. 20 yrs awaiting your first born well congratulations on that birth. Giving birth is a miracle and a gift from God and I rejoice with you. I did not say you had to USE birth control, but it sure beats killing kids. What I said was act responsibly. As far as life experience being superior how would you know what my life experiences have been? And ho...

I've only yet taken off one glove but I've no intention of attempting to enlighten that which cannot be saved. I was 20 years awaiting my first born and neither of ever used any form of birth protection. I suspect my life's experience in this matter is superior

Well bring it on I can take it. Not sure you can though. But we will see. 20 yrs awaiting your first born well congratulations on that birth. Giving birth is a miracle and a gift from God and I rejoice with you. I did not say you had to USE birth control, but it sure beats killing kids. What I said was act responsibly. As far as life experience being superior how would you know what my life experiences have been? And how do you even know how old I am or what I know? You know nothing about me. Nor I you. Therefore that argument is only conjecture and can not be used as a validation of your position.

Besides your very comment validates my position far better than it disputes it. By admitting that being sexually active for 20 yrs did not produce a child nor result in an abortion only proves that IT CAN BE DONE. WHY then are we killing so many babies?

and then the feast de resistance:

an emotive word like harlot is unhelpful, unless you'd use that term to describe your mother's or sisters' sex life?

Well, are they harlots too???

No actually my mother was an adulteress. I do not know about my sisters sex life nor do I care. But I hope she remains faithful to her husband.

We have degraded our own sexualities by being so promiscuous and we have degraded the joys of parenthood in the same manner. IMO